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Why stretching is stupid.
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By Ben Brotelho
From Albany, NY
Apr 11, 2013
Epic free solo with a pack on
Christian wrote:
"Literal" is an adjective used to modify a noun. "Literally" is the adverb.



I was once picked on for the size of my weiner;
Someone at the gym compared its girth to that of a biner!

Now, I don't think he was being literal,
as my member has never had a problem giving
orgasms both vaginal and clitoral

FLAG
By Ben Brotelho
From Albany, NY
Apr 11, 2013
Epic free solo with a pack on
haha of course my poem brings this to 3 pages.......

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By Mark E Dixon
From Sprezzatura, Someday
Apr 11, 2013
At the BRC
Aerili wrote:
I actually have some info about the effects of temperature on stretching connective tissue specifically (which is the major restriction to flexibility) and can either post it here if you are interested or even mail it to you. It's fairly scientific but really interesting.


I'd be interested in seeing this. I'll PM my contact info if you have tired of posting stuff here.

As an aside, in the muscle tendon tension paper you referenced, do you think it matters that they had the MCP joint held in neutral position in the crimp, when in real life it is usually flexed at about 90 degrees?

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By reboot
From Westminster, CO
Apr 11, 2013
Aerili wrote:
I actually have some info about the effects of temperature on stretching connective tissue specifically (which is the major restriction to flexibility) and can either post it here if you are interested or even mail it to you. It's fairly scientific but really interesting.

I'm fascinated. Please post here if space allows.

FLAG
By reboot
From Westminster, CO
Apr 11, 2013
Mark E Dixon wrote:
As an aside, in the muscle tendon tension paper you referenced, do you think it matters that they had the MCP joint held in neutral position in the crimp, when in real life it is usually flexed at about 90 degrees?

There are 2 more shortcomings with that paper, I think (not that I necessarily think the paper is bad): 1) it tests only the half crimp w/ a single finger. Whereas, due to uneven finger length, in either half or full crimp, you are more likely have a better distribution of force over all your fingers (your thumb also helps a lot in a full crimp) than open hand crimp. 2) the force is applied straight downward, which really isn't the common reason to use half/full crimp: it's a stronger grip for inward pull as you shift your center-of-gravity upward (i.e., while making a move). On the other hand, the friction surface area can be very different between open hand & half/full crimp (w/ open hand, you can often take advantage of the skin surface area on the rest of the finger/hand/wrist to reduce the contraction force).

FLAG
By Aerili
From Salt Lake City, UT
Apr 12, 2013
The West Desert...it's not just for climbing, suck...
Not offended, Greg, but how is saying I have Internet autism not hateful? I mean, really. One set of rules for you and another for me?

Actually I can't even believe all these people are still reading this shit. ;-)


Greg Kimble wrote:
The difference between me saying they are elastic and you saying they don't stretch that much is just what we are using as a reference. Relative to what? Collagen stretches a lot depending on what you are comparing it to. The elasticity of your skin is in large part due to the collagen. Simple misunderstanding that could be discussed reasonably.


Yes, so what are you comparing it to?

Some facts to help clear up "how much" collagen stretches: collagen fibers have a crimp formation when they lie together in connective tissue. When it uncrimps under load, the tissue elongates 1-2%. This is what it is supposed to do since this allows slight elongation of the structure without damage (and contributes to viscoelastic property). Higher loads can elongate it further but this is when the tissue begins to be damaged. Now I don't know what you consider "not stretching much," but I don't think 2% is very much. A collagen fiber can withstand a weight 10,000 times greater than its own and WILL NOT STRETCH. (From my Michael Alter book, citing a study by Verzar). I believe this is greater than steel. He goes on to say that at about a 5-6% strain in the tendon, fiber ruptures were observed to occur.

One of my anatomy texts states: "...collagen fibers are slightly wavy. This allows the tissue to stretch a little, but once the fibers are straightened out, there is no further 'give' to this tissue."

Your skin primarily gets its flexibility from the protein elastin, not collagen (as do most connective tissues in the body). This is info you can glean from any basic introductory anatomy text (three of which I have at home and refer to as needed). Elastin can stretch up to almost 150% of its length without damage. Some of the longitudinal ligaments in your spine are composed almost entirely of elastin. If they weren't, you wouldn't be able to nod, bend forward, or hardly move your spine at all. You would be a walking board. In fact, ligaments have more elastin than tendons and are therefore actually stretchier.

Muscle fibers have a much higher degree of elastin in them than tendons. Hence why they stretch so much further without damage.

The reality is that collagen is a structural support to your body and is designed to resist forces, aka not really stretch. If this wasn't the case, you would be like a melting Picasso figure since collagen is the most abundant protein in the body and is the glue which holds everything together.

The long and short of it is that if tendons actually did stretch "a lot" then you wouldn't be climbing. You wouldn't even be moving. There would be no tough anchor through which to transmit pulling forces because the forces would simply dissipate through the tissue as it lengthened. Imagine trying to hold a dog at your side on a leash with a rubber band instead of nylon. Not too effective.

The temperature stuff I will have to get to later. I have meetings and other work all afternoon.

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By Greg Kimble
From Colorado
Apr 12, 2013
Come on now, I already said I was just proving a point and apologized for it. Again, I apologize for being a dick. Why would you waste your time on that then not answer the real questions? Again, I am sorry for purposefully posting things to get under your skin. It distracted from the discussion and was stupid. I normally dont engage in that kind of stuff but i did. I won't do it again.

FLAG
By Aerili
From Salt Lake City, UT
Apr 13, 2013
The West Desert...it's not just for climbing, suck...
Sorry, I wasn't trying to harp on you, actually. Just thought the details were interesting for any wider audience (if there still is one, haaa) since I think the perception that tendons are stretchy is common (and the fact that ligaments are actually stretchier is not necessarily common knowledge). The info is dense, I know, but the right readers will (like me) enjoy reading that shit. (whatever that says about us :))

I'll post the other info later--I have things going on all day today (and most of tomorrow). Sorry for the delay.


FLAG
 


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