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Who else would like to see more wide cams on the market?
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By Greg G
From SLC, UT
Jul 6, 2012
The route in it's entirety.
Half size's in the wider stuff! More variety for gods sake so we can protect cracks using the correct size unit instead of a tipped out cam waiting to train track its way into my face.

Who's with me? The plethora of tiny stuff on the market is absurd. Let's round it out by bringing back the good stuff.

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By Unassigned User
Jul 6, 2012
This is kind of covered in the new BD cams thread. Maybe write BD/Fixie/Camp/whoever a letter telling them?

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By Stich
From Colorado Springs, Colorado
Jul 6, 2012
Coffee after freezing our asses off near James Pea...
Mia would like to see that. But she is climbing wide cracks at the moment and hence cannot type this.

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By Princess Mia
From Vail
Jul 6, 2012
Chillin' at City of Rocks
Haha Stich!!!! Too much rain at the moment......

But yeah I couldn't agree more!!! I hate the new BD big camf sizes, I love my old stuff. There is just something about having three 3.5, three new #4, and three old #4 on the harness. True bliss...... LOL

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By Stich
From Colorado Springs, Colorado
Jul 6, 2012
Coffee after freezing our asses off near James Pea...
We got rained out of Elevenmile twice today, once at the mouth of the canyon and later way back near the dam. Good to have rains finally. There are still smoking areas visible just uphill from 24.

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By Princess Mia
From Vail
Jul 6, 2012
Chillin' at City of Rocks
Stich
I dont mind the rain, as long as it is short lived....
I know we need it. But there is something about climbing in the sun.

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By 20 kN
Administrator
From Hawaii
Jul 7, 2012
Greg G wrote:
Half size's in the wider stuff! More variety for gods sake so we can protect cracks using the correct size unit instead of a tipped out cam waiting to train track its way into my face. Who's with me? The plethora of tiny stuff on the market is absurd. Let's round it out by bringing back the good stuff.

They exist. They are called Valley Giants. I believe they come in 9" and 12" versions. But indeed there is a pretty limited number of options for protecting wide offwidths, and a few more cam options would be nice.

valleygiant.com/

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By Elena Sera Jose
From colorado
Jul 7, 2012
bacon
Im for small stuff at least around front range im a firm believer in up to size #3 larger size cams have their place in the desert cracks mostly.

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By NorCalNomad
From San Francisco
Jul 7, 2012
Greg G wrote:
The plethora of tiny stuff on the market is absurd.


not really since there are an exponential more amount of routes that use small stuff. That being said +1 on Valley Giants, or making your own. Not really like you need non ridgid stems

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By Elena Sera Jose
From colorado
Jul 7, 2012
bacon
C Blank wrote:
not really since there are an exponential more amount of routes that use small stuff. That being said +1 on Valley Giants, or making your own. Not really like you need non ridgid stems


....
....

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By Jeremy Hand
Jul 7, 2012
slopey
use nuts problem solved

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By Princess Mia
From Vail
Jul 7, 2012
Chillin' at City of Rocks
Jeremy Hand wrote:
use nuts problem solved



Great idea!!!! I should have thought of that too. Nuts of every size......... Everything from 5 inches to 20 inches, and half sizes.......heck even quarter sizes!!!!
You are onto something here!

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By Ethan Henderson
From Silverdale, WA
Jul 8, 2012
aliens
wired bliss makes a 9 inch cam that fits between a 6 camalot and a VG9

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By Aric Datesman
Jul 8, 2012
Just throwing this out there partly as a feeler and partly to show how small a market it is... what would you be willing to pay for a wide cam?

Near as I can tell there are more than a couple machinists on the climbing forums, and some of us might be willing to do one-offs on a you don't know me, I don't know you but it should be good for 10kN basis. I'm not really soliciting, as I don't have time for such things at the moment and don't care to undercut Tom in his labor of love (by my calculations he's losing money on each one he sells, unless the machinery is paid off of he's ignoring his labor cost).

In any event, I though I'd point out that the math isn't that hard and if you really are hurting for off-sizes there's other options available. IIRC I built a ~#3 BD cam a while back using nothing more than a drill press, hacksaw and file for $35, which failed at 20+kN.

Then again, nowadays it seems that meat that doesn't come on Styrofoam wrapped in cellophane in suspect. I'm afraid that's a bigger discussion, and perhaps more suited to ST. YMMV.

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By Unassigned User
Jul 8, 2012
Aric I have often thought about making my own big cams. Because all the cool things like offset and wire stem, weight. Those go out the door. So since seeing a thread on here that some kid made a cam in machine shop I have thought about making my own. Solid stem, not too much to go wrong on. I would whip on one. But then my climbing buddy calls me hazard for a reason.

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By Larry
From SoAZ
Jul 8, 2012
Ethan Henderson wrote:
wired bliss makes a 9 inch cam that fits between a 6 camalot and a VG9


Citation needed.

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By coloradosk8r
From Ft Collins co
Jul 8, 2012
Mia, I would have enjoyed climbing with the RCCC this weekend, had the weather cooperated. Veedaewoo sometime soon. Hopefully Bob will grant us Colorado folk permission to play in his backyard.

Say hi to Hal for me...I would if he'd answer his phone.

Jake

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By NC Rock Climber
From The Oven, AKA Phoenix
Jul 8, 2012
tanuki
I know that WB was planning to make big cams. They even had some of the parts made and posted the pics on FB. However, I do not know if they ever actually got around to making them. I don't think that they did. I exchanged e-mails with the owner, Michael, in October '11. At that time he provided me with the following info on the sizing of the new cams.:

#5 Range 3.1 to 5.0
#6 Range 3.75 to 6.0
#7.5 Range 4.25 to 7.5
#9 Range 5.5 to 9

I really hope that they get around to making the larger cams. WB makes great gear and I would like to see some options in the larger range.

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By Aric Datesman
Jul 9, 2012
Pondered this a couple days, and figured wth.... If there's enough interest in them I might be able to be talked into knocking out a small run of big cams. IIRC I have +/-8 feet of 6" wide by 0.250" thick 6061-T6 sitting on the shelf that was purchased for this sort of thing years ago, and I'm tired of looking at it. Probably some 4" and 5" as well. Would have to get consensus on size, single/double axle, rigid/single/U-stem and whatnot, at which point I could run the costing. I've got a CNC machine shop in the basement, so while possible to do it all with a hacksaw and file I'd instead take the easy route. Heck, for the right price I'd even dig out the anodizing tank and make them all pretty. Oh, and obviously they'd be proof tested to some agreed upon load...

Any takers?

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By Will S
From Joshua Tree
Jul 9, 2012
Would only be interested in one that was mid-range at ~7", so probably in the 5.5-9 ballpark. At that size, weight becomes more important than range, so I'd think single axle...but would be curious to see what the weight difference would amount to...double axle might perform better as a "pusher" piece, at least the 6 camalot is easier to push than the 6 friend (whether that is due to head width, axle design, spring tension, or something else is a question I can't answer)

Stem design probably won't matter much, u-stem would probably be easier and lighter.

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By Aric Datesman
Jul 9, 2012
Would have to check my notes, but IIRC 6" stock is plenty for a 9" cam. And I'll do whatever there's interest in, provided it's at least 4 or 5 per size so I don't lose weeks in programming a dozen different cams...

Side note- double axle isn't as awesome as it's made out to be... Taken to their theoretical maximums for a given minimum size, a double axle has only a 10% greater range than a single axle using the same cam angle (IIRC, would have to check my notes as it's been years since I looked into this). This 10% comes with a hefty weight penalty, and in practice (with BD at least), the axle spacing is far from optimal. To put it another way, most of the additional range of C4's comes from the 15 degree cam angle, not the double axle.

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By Unassigned User
Jul 9, 2012
Aric I would buy probably three large cams, I am not really picky so if you get three popular sizes I would tack my order on those. Of course that is assuming that I have enough money at that point =P Really a anything up to 9 in would be cool, 9 and above I try to avoid haha.

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By Aric Datesman
Jul 9, 2012
Huh. Two semi-positive responses before a Yur Gonna Die!!!! Guess I spend too much time on ST. :-)

Well, pass the word around and I suppose we could use this thread to hash out details. So long as I cover costs and tooling, it would be a welcome diversion from the daily grind.

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By Chris Plesko
From Westminster, CO
Jul 9, 2012
OMG, I winz!!!
I'd likely buy a 9" sized cam depending on cost.

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By Aric Datesman
Jul 9, 2012
Pulled out my notes, and it looks like a #9 VG has a range of 145-229mm (5.71-9.01"). I've never asked Tom what cam angle he uses, but those numbers fit rather well with 14.0 degrees. And actually, hopping over to his site (valleygiant.com/) that is indeed what he's using. Pricing would be quite competitive with his stuff, but frankly I'd rather not steal business from him so we'd have to come up with a fairly major design change or three to justify edging in on him. I've got an idea or two, so maybe that's not actually an issue.

-a.

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By Unassigned User
Jul 9, 2012
Aric I don't know if it is worth even thinking about, but maybe some longer stems/shorter stems variations? Might make some placements easier... I can only think of one instance when I wanted a longer stem, not sure if the weight would have justified the placement though.

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