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By user id
Feb 19, 2013
DUDE! Your ankles....

CJC wrote:
rock and ice is a joke. this month they feature a crag in Idaho that consists of 99.9% manufactured routes. I cancelled my subscription immediately. fuckin sellouts.

Ha Ha Ha...You cancelled it right then and there huh? I'm sure you did! The internet is a great way to publicly embarrass yourself.

E- I would just say buy a few of the mags, read them, and decide for yourself. My 2 cents: The Alpinist is Quality. The digital subscription is great and it sounds like more of what you're looking for? But, If you want a good, all-around magazine and if you still like the "in hand" feel, Rock & Ice is really good and affordable. It seems to touch on all of what you want at least once per issue.


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By David Sahalie
From on the road again
Feb 19, 2013

CJC wrote:
not the city of rocks asshat. the cave @ riggins. did YOU read the article? no. lol at the wankers defending chipping speaks for itself. what else is there to say?


He didn't defend chipping. He said you don't know what you are talking about, apparently from not being able to read the sentence which says you don't know what you are talking about.


Alpinist has very little to do with rock climbing. It is like reading a snowboard magazine to learn about skiing.

Alpinist does have good writing by climbing magazine standards, but if you want to read old men blathering on about epicing on a steep, cold hikes just read through trip reports on supertopo.


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By Clayton Knudson
From El Portal, CA
Feb 19, 2013

My girlfriend got me a subscription to climbing and thus far (2 months), I have been disappointed. I agree with the others that the "how to" sections in the back of the mag aren't demonstrating anything I don't already know and I miss the writing style of the R&I articles. The photos are great but they are with every magazine.


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By Scott Sinner
From Mammoth Lakes, CA
Feb 19, 2013
Descending the B-S Col

David Sahalie wrote:
He didn't defend chipping. He said you don't know what you are talking about, apparently from not being able to read the sentence which says you don't know what you are talking about. Alpinist has very little to do with rock climbing. It is like reading a snowboard magazine to learn about skiing. Alpinist does have good writing by climbing magazine standards, but if you want to read old men blathering on about epicing on a steep, cold hikes just read through trip reports on supertopo.


Geez, why ya gotta hate on alpine climbing so much?


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By user id
Feb 19, 2013
DUDE! Your ankles....

He's a dick about everything?
Don't be surprised.


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By David Sahalie
From on the road again
Feb 19, 2013

I don't hate Alpinist. I respect alpine climbers and their ability to suffer for stoic inner glory.

What I am 'hating on' is comparing the alpine climbing experience to rock climbing. It is totally and completely different.

An alpine climber trains to do what they do and other than keeping generally fit, it wont make them a better rock climber in any way.

The latest Outside magazine has an article on climbing gyms, so that is actually more relevant to becoming a better rock climber than 90% of the content in Alpinist.

OP, have you considered Outside magazine?

Or seriously, you will learn more about big wall climbing on supertopo. Big wall climbing doesn't really have a dedicated print magazine these days.


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By R. Moran
From Moab , UT
Feb 19, 2013
REtro

David Sahalie wrote:
The latest Outside magazine has an article on climbing gyms, so that is actually more relevant to becoming a better rock climber than 90% of the content in Alpinist. .


Isn't that Ironic. Outside about climbing indoors.

R.I.P Urban Climber


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By Fat Dad
From Los Angeles, CA
Feb 19, 2013

David Sahalie wrote:
What I am 'hating on' is comparing the alpine climbing experience to rock climbing. It is totally and completely different.

Isn't that what you were doing? Calling it "snow" climbing and inferring it was inferior to rock climbing (though you probably really meant sport climbing)?

Also, for the record, lots of good alpinists are really strong on rock. You have to be when you're leading poorly protected 5.9 or .10 at altitude, with mountain boots and a heavy pack. Mark Wilford, Jeff Lowe, Josh Wharton, Tomo Cesen, Marko Prezle (sp?), Don Whillans, Alex Lowe, Stephan Siegrist, etc., etc. are/were all really strong rock climbers. Reading about their exploits is climbing literature at its best.


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By David Appelhans
From Lafayette
Feb 20, 2013
Imaginate

David Sahalie wrote:
He didn't defend chipping. He said you don't know what you are talking about, apparently from not being able to read the sentence which says you don't know what you are talking about. Alpinist has very little to do with rock climbing. It is like reading a snowboard magazine to learn about skiing. Alpinist does have good writing by climbing magazine standards, but if you want to read old men blathering on about epicing on a steep, cold hikes just read through trip reports on supertopo.


You are a moron.

+1 to the pmag comment.


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By J Q
Feb 20, 2013
Me again!

David Appelhans wrote:
You are a moron. .



So is everyone on here that took the time out of their ever so full day in order to slag one another for no other reason than than the fact we like to play with different toys and read different stories; this includes you Applebum.

One interesting question:

If us mountaineers and tradsters require such thick skin for success in their challenging environments, what's up with all the butt hurt feelings that people keep droning on about whenever someone disagrees with them?

From someone who actually participates in all of these endeavors it's pretty amusing and seems to be mostly a one sided whine. (;


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By camhead
From Vandalia, Appalachia
Feb 20, 2013
You stay away from mah pig!

I'm going to agree with whoever upthread gave the shout-out to Deadpoint. Definitely the freshest, least contrived climbing media out there. Mike Williams's interpretations of the Cerro Torre bolt chopping, Adam Ondra, and the recent Mexico violence have all been far and away the best write-ups of any climbing media on the subjects.

And yeah, R&I is doing better than Climbing right now, but with both magazines I just get the image of provincial Coloradoans jerking each other off. The same writers, writing about the same climbers, with pictures of the same models climbing at the same crags, month after month. Check out some of the linked photo essays that R&I has on the front page here, barely any take place outside the intermountain West.


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By Jake Jones
From Richmond, VA
Feb 20, 2013
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.

camhead wrote:
I'm going to agree with whoever upthread gave the shout-out to Deadpoint. Definitely the freshest, least contrived climbing media out there. Mike Williams's interpretations of the Cerro Torre bolt chopping, Adam Ondra, and the recent Mexico violence have all been far and away the best write-ups of any climbing media on the subjects. And yeah, R&I is doing better than Climbing right now, but with both magazines I just get the image of provincial Coloradoans jerking each other off. The same writers, writing about the same climbers, with pictures of the same models climbing at the same crags, month after month. Check out some of the linked photo essays that R&I has on the front page here, barely any take place outside the intermountain West.


Well said, not to mention, R&I is relying more and more on forums such as this one for material, or at least the impetus to create material. I forsee it getting so bad that they actually start quoting forums- if that hasn't been done already. I like R&I sometimes, but out of a full year which I think is 8 issues, it seems as though there are only one or two that appeal to me as a climber in the east. YMMV


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By David Sahalie
From on the road again
Feb 20, 2013

Fat Dad wrote:
Isn't that what you were doing? Calling it "snow" climbing and inferring it was inferior to rock climbing (though you probably really meant sport climbing)? Also, for the record, lots of good alpinists are really strong on rock. You have to be when you're leading poorly protected 5.9 or .10 at altitude, with mountain boots and a heavy pack. Mark Wilford, Jeff Lowe, Josh Wharton, Tomo Cesen, Marko Prezle (sp?), Don Whillans, Alex Lowe, Stephan Siegrist, etc., etc. are/were all really strong rock climbers. Reading about their exploits is climbing literature at its best.



Sure, sponsored alpine climbers are bad-ass and can do multiple pitches of 12-13s at altitude (Lama), but they didn't get that skill and strength on rock by reading Alpine magazine and pining over their heros' stories.


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By David Sahalie
From on the road again
Feb 20, 2013

camhead wrote:
with both magazines I just get the image of provincial Coloradoans jerking each other off. .


spot on, and all while promoting the ethics of tramping over the high alpine environments for the perfect... v16!... no wait now... v15... damn it... just another v14.


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By Fat Dad
From Los Angeles, CA
Feb 20, 2013

David Sahalie wrote:
Sure, sponsored alpine climbers are bad-ass and can hike 12-13s at altitude (Lama), but they didn't get that skills and strength on rock by reading Alpine magazine and pining over their hero's stories.

I agree with you, but that wasn't your original point, was it? Had you offered something more constructive at the outset then perhaps you would have not invited the moron comment.

Back to the OP, the best source for what you're looking for is probably to check out Chris MacNamara's new big wall book. If what you're looking for in a mag is big wall instruction, you're only going to get scattered bits and pieces. Fun reading; little edification.


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By bearbreeder
Feb 20, 2013

just read the back issues for free

www.rockandice.com/current-issue-rock-and-ice-climbing-magaz>>>

as for reading the alpinist or any other mag ...

reading that stuff isnt what makes you a better climber ... going out and training and practicing your skills, and climbing as hard as you can ... is what will make you better

if you want to read something that helps you ... the mountaineers and falcon publish some good training/skills books

the one exception is the R&I accident reports ...


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By David Sahalie
From on the road again
Feb 20, 2013

Fat Dad wrote:
I agree with you, but that wasn't your original point, was it? Had you offered something more constructive at the outset then perhaps you would have not invited the moron comment. .


Thanks for the tip Dad, but name calling someone mentally retarded because they have a different view is never justified.


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By Adam Stackhouse
Administrator
Feb 20, 2013
Courtright Reservoir, September 2013

Ben Beckerich wrote:
I'm a big fan of Pmags.. best bang for the buck, super reliable.


Me too!


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By Fat Dad
From Los Angeles, CA
Feb 20, 2013

David Sahalie wrote:
Thanks for the tip Dad, but name calling someone mentally retarded because they have a different view is never justified.

I didn't call you that. Someone else did. I don't think you're a moron, but your comments did seem intended to generate a particular reaction. Flip comments invite flip responses.


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By David Sahalie
From on the road again
Feb 20, 2013

Fat Dad wrote:
I didn't call you that. Someone else did. I don't think you're a moron, but your comments did seem intended to generate a particular reaction. Flip comments invite flip responses.



I didn't say you called me a moron, I said you justified it. It is like saying rape victims were 'asking for it' because they wore a mini skirt.

Whatever my comments are, the choice is up to you or anyone else on how to react to them. The 'particular reaction' feeling you felt and then acted on is called being 'trolled.'

I agree J Q, mountain climbers seem to be very sensitive.


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By Jeremy Hand
Feb 20, 2013
slopey

David Sahalie wrote:
is like saying rape victims were 'asking for it' because they wore a mini skirt.


Sounds like someone needs to stop wearing proverbial miniskirts, eh?


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By Ezekiel Thornton
From Akron, Ohio
Feb 23, 2013
Top of Castleton

Tons of input + some.. haha

Going to check out the different magz and see which one I'll be interested in. Alpinist seems awesome but I don't think it is what I'm looking for. If I can get a good deal on the one I'm looking for then I'll subscribe.


Fat Dad. I did buy that book, waiting for it to come in!


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By Justin Brunson
From Broomfield CO
Feb 23, 2013

Off topic, but the riggins cave is awesome, and there are plenty of hard natural lines in the surrounding area.


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