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Where would you move?

Original Post
Mike P · · Saint Louis · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 71

My wife and I, currently in St. Louis, are looking to move somewhere in the not-so-distant future that offers more nearby outdoor sport climbing. (Closest we have here is roughly 2.5 hours away.) And I'm hoping to get some input from you fine folks.

Aside from having convenient sport climbing, here are the things we're considering as desirable factors:

1) Weather that's not super hot. (e.g., Las Vegas area is likely too hot for us.)

2) A nice gym -- we like to climb even on crappy weather days and have found that a gym is often a good place to meet people (which we'll definitely need to be doing in a new town...).

3) A not-super-high cost of living. We're both self-employed, and our income will not change when we move. So, for example, we think we have ruled out Boulder, despite its otherwise high desirability.

We visited Chattanooga earlier this year and liked it, but we're planning to check out some other cities as well.

What follows is our current list. We would love to hear your input on which one you would visit first and why -- or if there are others we should be considering.

1) Bend
2) West side of Denver, near Golden
3) Colorado Springs
4) Albuquerque, NM. (We hadn't expected to have this one on our list, but based on a perusal of MP Destinations, it looks like there's actually a fair amount of climbing within an hour.)

NickinCO · · colorado · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 155

Golden can be just as expensive as Boulder. There are a lot of cheaper areas around the front range that are still close to rock.

Andy Laakmann · · Bend, OR · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,990

Bend.

The quality of life here is ridiculously good. Access to climbing, skiing, river sports, and endless mountain biking all within 25 minutes or less.. Low cost of living compared to other desirable locations. If you are planning to start a family this is a great family town. Four seasons, none of which are too extreme. You can often ski, bike, and climb in the same week (or even day if you are motivated!). And with 100,000 people it is a full service town but you never feel like you are competing for resources/space/access like the front range.

And we're getting a new 15,000 sqft gym next year - woot!

Despite being in oregon, we are in a desert (rain shadow) and get less total rainfall than Boulder. But I can drive 25 minutes and be in a rain forest if I want to.

The secret is to bring your own job - and it sounds like you have that covered.

Andy

Dan Felix · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 35

Northeast??

Paul Zander · · Bern, CH · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 739

HA! have you ever been to flagstaff? It rarely gets above 90 in the summer... climbing ranges in elevation from 3000 feet to 9000 feet

Mike P · · Saint Louis · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 71
NickinCO wrote:Golden can be just as expensive as Boulder. There are a lot of cheaper areas around the front range that are still close to rock.
Costliness of Golden is kind of why we were thinking Denver-ish and drive toward Golden. Don't know how feasible that is though.

Dan Felix wrote:Northeast??
Any specific towns you would recommend?

Paul Zander wrote:HA! have you ever been to flagstaff? It rarely gets above 90 in the summer... climbing ranges in elevation from 3000 feet to 9000 feet
Shows how much I know. Thank you for pointing that out. I suppose this is why we're asking here. :)

Andy Laakmann wrote:Bend. The quality of life here is ridiculously good.
Thank you for sharing the personal experience. Sounds pretty good!

Anybody else?
codrew · · Wheat Ridge, CO · Joined Jan 2011 · Points: 5

Moved to Albuquerque about 8 months ago, from the Baltimore/DC area. It was not on my list either, but when approached by my employer I also was impressed with the amount of climbing within close proximity. Overall I am glad I made the move.

I have only been here since October, but so far the seasons are pretty mild. Cold nights in winter, but very temperate during the day. Spring is windy with great temps. July is hot, but the monsoon season hits about the middle of the month and the rain brings cooler temps. The monsoon season puts a little damper on climbing, only because you can never really know where it is going to storm. During the monsoons the average humidity is around 50% or so, the rest of the year it is non-existent. I have not been here in the fall yet, but have been told that it is awesome.

The climbing is not "destination" but I have found it to be very fun. And you can get to a lot of stuff in under 8/9 hours if you are looking for a long weekend (Red Rocks, lots in CO, Cochise Stronghold, Sedona, Mt Lemmon, Flagstaff all in AZ, and all of NM). I mostly climb moderate trad, and there is a lot of fun and adventurous stuff up in the Sandias, which is right on the edge of the "city". Many will tell you it's a choss pile, but many of those same people would tell you that Seneca, WV is a pile as well. To each there own. If you like drive up sport crags, there is some of that to be had as well. I am not as familiar with those options as I do not like crowded crags so I generally avoid them. I have climbed outside almost every month of the year since I've been here, with the exception of Dec and Jan...and some of that was due to lack of partners not weather conditions. You can climb in the Sandias during the hot months (as long as you avoid the storms) because the temps up there are considerably cooler than the valley.

With that being said, I do not find the climbing community to be very open, but the community I left in Columbia/DC was really awesome. I have found a lot of people I climb with off MP...which is funny because I always thought climbing with "strangers" was sketchy, but suffice it to say I've adjusted and really enjoy it now.

The climbing gym is pretty decent, but they are building a new once which is supposed to be opening this winter (the old one will be closing I assume) The new one will be larger with higher walls as well, so I think it will be sufficient to fulfill your indoor needs. Even though I was a little spoiled by the Earth Treks gyms back home, I'm happy with Stone Age here in abq.

The cost of living is super reasonable, depending on where you live. Of course I came from MD/DC so I may not be a great judge; it was a very high cost of living. Taxes, insurance, housing, gas, utilities are all cheaper than what I was accustomed to in the NE.

Crowds and traffic are extremely minimal, but again, I came from a very densely populated area. I've gotten spoiled if I have to wait in line for anything...except of course the DMV. To me this is a really big perk, I don't like crowds at all.

Overall I find it to be a good and easy quality of life here. A HUGE drawback here is the cost of flights in and out of the ABQ airport. They just rated it to be the 3rd or 4th most expensive airports out of like 105.....or something like that. For this reason, I don't know that I will be completely content staying here "forever", but I don't have any plans of leaving any time soon.

If you want to talk/email/visit with a place to crash, feel free to PM me.

Drew

Tyrel Fuller · · Denver, CO · Joined May 2010 · Points: 130

Golden, CO. End of discussion. Good enough cragging within 5 minutes of town year round and earth treks is building a gym in town that should be open by late 2014. 20 minutes from boulder, 30 minutes from Mt. Evans, and within 1-2 hours from the SOuth Platte. Doesn't seem like much of decision to me. PS. I may have been drinking tonight...

doligo · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 264

Haha, I like how you ruled out Flag and are considering Chattanooga. Tennessee is hot as hell plus humid in the summer.

Austin Baird · · SLC, Utah · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 95

I don't think that list is complete with Salt Lake. If I leave my house in the suburbs at 6 in the morning, I'm up Little Cottonwood Canyon in 6 minutes. Big Cottonwood in 15. AF canyon in 30. Maple in 2 hours. Etc. etc. etc.

Momentum is building a second location. We have a couple strings of 100+ days but it's easy to get out of the heat.

Cheap cost of living. It's at least worth checking out.

Ian G. · · PDX, OR · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 280

Most of the best sport climbing in Vegas is up in the mtns. Even when it's 110 on the strip it will only be....in the 80's in some of the better limestone areas. But, you'd be living in Vegas...If you want to sport climb, I'd consider it.

If you already have a job, Bend is great. Absolutely do not move here without a solid plan though. Everyone and there grandmother wants to live here(because yes, it is that good). Cost of living in OR is rapidly rising. It's not California...yet.

Scott O · · Anchorage · Joined Mar 2010 · Points: 70
doligo wrote:Haha, I like how you ruled out Flag and are considering Chattanooga. Tennessee is hot as hell plus humid in the summer.
Irony of ironies.

Flag is amazing and definitely not very hot. Chattanooga is a cool town, but my god is it hot in the summer.
Dan Felix · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 35

I've only been in New Hampshire for 4 years and climbing a bit over a year. Anywhere in this state should qualify. Rumney is close. I'm sure theres sport climbs down in Mass, and there are others scattered here and there in NH. I don't know what other requirements you have besides climbing..... The ocean is close, the White Mountains are just up the road from me. Gyms exist; Dover, Manchester and Concord in NH (maybe more- I'm not exactly a gym rat), plus over in Portland, and I know there's a few in Mass somewhere. I moved from central Indiana and to me, the weather here is better. Lower humidity (even on the humid summer days here), its actually warmer in the winter and having snow to look at sure as hell beats looking at barren frozen farm fields for 4+ months.

From the sounds of it, if you are at all interested in this area, I'd be looking down in the Seacoast area- Portsmouth up to Rochester. Or depending on what type of work and other interests anywhere in the White Mountains...

Mike P · · Saint Louis · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 71

Message received loud and clear re: Flagstaff. :)

As far as Chattanooga, their summers are almost identical to those here in St. Louis (at least with regard to average temperature, humidity, and dew point). And that's probably the biggest reason we're making a point to look at other locations as well.

Drew: Thank you for the thorough description of Albuquerque. Much appreciated.

Austin: That does sound pretty nice!

Dan: Thank you for the additional information and specific suggestions. Definitely gives us some more places to look at.

Brendan Blanchard · · Boulder, CO · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 590

To add to what Dan said, NH is pretty great for sport climbing.

Rumney has amazing sport climbing from 5.10 to 5.15. It may only be one area, but it's closer to 20 crags. If you were to live in Concord/surrounding area you'd be ~10-15 min from the (pretty great and new) gym in town and 45-1 hr from Rumney, 2 hours from everything North Conway, and 2-3 hours from anything in the Whites, including the scattered sport climbing on the Kanc.

I can't sell the Northeast compared to Boulder, Front Range, or Bend as I've never been, but the Northeast has a little bit of good quality everything. Really though, Rumney is stacked.

Summers are hot and humid, probably not unlike anywhere else though. Fall and early spring are amazing and can't be beat.

Eric8 · · Maynard, MA · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 310

I guess the New Hampshire/NE qualifies but I don't think it makes it close to the best option, if sport climbing is what your into. Rumney is a very good crag but summers are hot and humid and spring can be wet.

I would think some where in Colorado would give you access to a lot of very good sport climbing crags in Co, UT, WY. Rifle, lander, tensleep, maple canyon, etc. Maybe Fort Collins?

Bend would also be great, only downside is there isn't a lot of sport climbing aside from smith nearby making it harder to go to new places. Smith is amazing though and I would move to bend in heart beat if I had a job that allowed me too.

Andy Laakmann · · Bend, OR · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,990

We had some friends move from Flagstaff to Bend a few years ago. They spent quite a few years in Flag. While they liked Flagstaff, they do find Bend to be a much, much better place to live for them.

It does have a very similar climate it turns out (i.e. four seasons, none of which are too extreme), though Flag has much windier Springs. Bend probably gets a little more snow in winter, but that doesn't impact climbing much. The best climbing days in Smith are in winter IMO! Smith gets a whopping 7" of rain a year. Crazy low.

Flagstaff certainly offers more variety of climbing. Although for sport climbing they VASTLY prefer Smith. They found the sport climbing near Flag somewhat limited compared to Smith. Of course Flag has Sedona, the Forks, etc. for trad. We have the Smith Basalt and Trout Creek (amazing place) for trad. Smith, obviously, holds a lifetime of sport climbing and you can climb year round at Smith no problem. You do have better access to road trip destinations from Flag. Beyond Smith/Trout, one needs to drive quite ways to find other world class climbing.

But the variety of OTHER stuff so accessible to Bend really makes Bend shine. Rivers, great skiing (6 months a year!), rain forest, etc... are all *very* close. And unlike Salt Lake or the Front Range, there are zero crowds. Lift lines don't exist, traffic jams don't exist, etc. Smith on weekends can be crowded, but there are plenty of ways to avoid thw crowds. And weekdays are empty.

Not sure this is relevant, but they were starting a family and really didn't find Flag to be a great place to raise kids for a number of reasons. They were quite down on it in fact. Bend is an absurdly perfect place to raise a family. Great schools, and everything is family friendly.

This is all second hand of course as I didn't live in Flag. But we did spend quite a bit of time talking about it because we too considered Flag before moving to Bend.

ps. From an "investment/home purchase" standpoint, Bend is on the upswing big time. Bend is one of those places with very few compromises thus economically the next 10-15 years in Bend will most likey be very promising. Oregon State is building their next four year campus here which is great for the economy. Sure there will be peaks and valleys in the economic growth - but people WANT to be in Bend and that is always good for the economy. I suspect in 15-20 years Bend will be a very expensive place to purchase a home, but for now it is very reasonable considering what-you-get for the price of living here. If I had to guess, Bend will eventually be the "new Boulder" in a few years... good if you get in early economically, bad if you arrive late to the game (i.e. in 15 years).

Yup, pretty sweet place to live!

doligo · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 264
Eric8 wrote: I would think some where in Colorado would give you access to a lot of very good sport climbing crags in Co, UT, WY. Rifle, lander, tensleep, maple canyon, etc. Maybe Fort Collins?
The OP's criteria is to be within an hour of drive, don't think FoCo qualifies. But I like your idea, if I were moving for the sake of sport climbing, I would move somewhere closer to a good limestone area with modern style of climbing. Carbondale, CO would be my first choice if it wasn't so expensive, but I would look maybe into Glenwood Springs or even Grand Junction (hot as hell in the summer, but within an hour of drive to Rifle). My second choice would be Buffalo, WY - nice little town close to Ten Sleep, but bigger than the town of Ten Sleep itself and not as depressing as Sheridan, at the foot of the Big Horn Mountains. The oil boom keeps unemployment and tax rates low. Close to the nearby SD limestone and granite.
W L · · NEVADASTAN · Joined Mar 2010 · Points: 851

Gotta love how every one of these threads often degenerates into a simple answer of...

(wherever I currently live)

lol.

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion · · Colorado · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 35
Weston L wrote:Gotta love how every one of these threads often degenerates into a simple answer of... (wherever I currently live) lol.
I live in Denver and I would never ever recommend it to someone based on climbing

-The drive from Denver to Boulder on 36 is 1.5-2 hours most of the day and there doesn't seem to be an end in sight.

-The cost of living is skyrocketing. We're not far from becoming a "boutique" such as San Fran.

-The city center is nice. The rest is some of the most awful urban sprawl. We've got about 4 square miles of good living flanked on all sides by miles and miles of traffic and mini-malls.

-The really local climbing is merely an exercise in not being bored. I've really tried to give clear creek and table a chance. Fact is, there are a handful of good routes there. One single wall at the Red, Rifle, Maple, or Tensleep completely eclipses everything within 30 min of Denver.

-The South Platte is nice

-I-70 is a parking lot most of the year

-Many larger cities are very sustainable because they are set up for residents to not have to drive. Denver is set up so that nearly every person living here needs to own a car.

I'm not being sarcastic. If you are able to live anywhere and not base it on work, Denver would be a terrible choice. Find a small town with good climbing that's within 2 hours of a big city. Laramie, Glenwood, Logan UT, whatever makes you smile.
doligo · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 264
Weston L wrote:Gotta love how every one of these threads often degenerates into a simple answer of... (wherever I currently live) lol.
I know. Economists call it "buyer rationalization", closely related to "buyer's remorse". People buy something and rationalize afterwards trying to justify their choice. Please note though, I don't live in either of the places I suggested - they are my desired places to live.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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