What's your gear placement success rate?
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We've all heard the phrase that placing "psychological" pro is generally a bad idea. For me, being a smart trad climber means being either 100% sure the last piece is good (and the fall is clean), or being 100% sure I'm not going to fall (ideally both). Of course things happen (rockfall, rock breaking, etc) so we shouldn't even take that for granted...but for now let's ignore the freak accidents. |
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I've never had a gear placement pull but I've only ever fallen once on gear. It was a 15 footer onto a blue alien. I'm okay with climbing above < optimal placements because I consider danger to be part of the game. That being said, I try to get bomber placement as soon as I can, and I may bail if I think I'm likely to fall on a shitty placement. |
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I would say I've probably fallen ~15 times this season on gear, and they all held. They were all bomber pieces in my mind though. I guess my rule of thumb is to try routes at or above my limit only if they protect well. If they protect well then it wouldn't be a marginal placement and I would be comfortable falling. |
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After a 10 foot traverse from the belay ledge on the final pitch of a route There was a shallow finger crack a little less than vertical. Was not confident on the micro nut I precariously placed so I backed it up with another iffy micro nut. Climbed above it and fell. The first nut pulled, I squealed, the second one held. |
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Haha, I pulled the first piece of gear I ever placed at Indian Creek (I had maybe done a dozen leads on gear prior to this). Some 5.10-, stemmed up this wide section and then placed an orange Master Cam in a thin crack above my head. Continued stemming and slipped, fell 10 feet onto a rocky slab and slid to my belayer's feet. Didn't lead and barely climbed the rest of the trip. I'll say I got lucky and then I swore I'd get back on the horse, smarter and stronger. |
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I think the whole premise for discussion is "psychological", based on supposition, not quantifiable. |
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As much as I'd like it, I wasn't expecting any scientific / quantitative information to come out of this. Just stories. I'm mostly wondering if anyone has ever pulled a piece they had total confidence in. |
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1 piece pulled in 10 or so leader falls. hopefully zero more crappy placements. |
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Psychological pro to me is making the best of a bad situation, getting something in even if it's not great. I have only used it on long alpine routes or big walls where the options run out. |
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Ryan Dirks wrote:As much as I'd like it, I wasn't expecting any scientific / quantitative information to come out of this. Just stories. I'm mostly wondering if anyone has ever pulled a piece they had total confidence in.Oddly enough, this has only happened to me once and it happened aid climbing. Granted, it was a small cam (0 or 00 or offset, don't remember) but I bounced it, stood on it and then it blew when I got high up on it. Not expecting it all. For the most part I have only ripped gear that I didn't think was very good to begin with. Conversely, I have definitely had gear hold that I didn't think was very good to begin with. |
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ha ha...I've been sticking widgets in cracks and holes for about 40 years; live to tell. |
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1) Ryan Dirks wrote: Personally I like to try to keep at least two "100%" pieces between me and the ground. (ground or ledge) 2) Ryan Dirks wrote: For me, being a smart trad climber means being either 100% sure the last piece is good (and the fall is clean), or being 100% sure I'm not going to fall (ideally both) I have a lot of trad experience and some big and small falls and I've spent a lot time learning from others with even more experience from me. You should always adhere to #1 if there's even a small chance you will fall. However it gets hard to start pushing your grade when you adhere to #2 all the time and I think that's where people get in trouble. Knowing when to compromise #2 is where climbing becomes an art... |
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Oh and to answer the question. 100% of the pieces I thought were bomber held my falls. 50% of the pieces I thought were mediocre held my fall. |
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I had one piece pull on when I fell at the crux of Persistence at the Gunks. It was a .3 X4 that I got stuck in a sub-optimal placement in a pod; the two inner lobes were cammed and the outer two were grossly undercammed. Anyway, I greased off when that piece was 1.5-2 ft below my foot, fell, cam blew up, I bounced off that huge block at the base of the route* and came to rest on my next piece. The .3 had worked out into the pod so it was held passively on two lobes, i.e. on the trigger wires, so when I fell I broke a trigger wire and the cam popped. I was shaking from beta-endorphins for a while and I thought I broke my hand, but it ended up being fine after a few days. And BD gave me a new cam for free (no repair kits for the X4s yet), so that was nice. |
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I only decked once this year. |
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I've taken in the neighborhood of 150 falls on gear that I've placed from a few feet to as many as 45 feet. I've had two pieces pull and I knew they were trash when I placed them. So, no I've never had a piece pull that I thought was good. |
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only had one piece pop, |
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Only about 5-6 falls, about twice as many weighting gear from 3' or less. Four longer falls, two on small Stoppers and two on Pink Tricams. All were good. Also, an emergency rappel on a #4 Stopper (bounce tested first). |
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Only ever had one piece pop, but I knew it was shit when I placed it. I was practicing some aid on a TR solo and I had used up both of my nuts that fit the crack where I could reach. above the nut placement was a bad flare from a blown out pin scar and I tried to place my trusty red tri-cam in it. It held quite a bit of bounce testing only to pop while I was standing on it. I knew it was really bad, though. |
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20 years climbing, until recently, mostly trad. |
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I don't fall much on trad and have never had a piece "fail". I will place less than perfect pro rather than none if it's all I can find. |