Route Guide - iPhone / Android - Partners - Forum - Photos - Deals - What's New
Login with Facebook
 ADVANCED
whats the deal w 80m ropes
View Latest Posts in This Forum or All Forums
   Page 2 of 3.  <<First   <Prev   1  2  3   Next>   Last>>
Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
 
By Abel Jones
From Hickory, NC
Nov 12, 2012
Nice Crisp day for an FA

Anywhere where a 70 m is now standard like lotsa sierras around bishop area ca. This includes Owens gorge and all the big granite on up into the valley. Linking pitches in the mountains is a must but sometimes the 70 makes you simul the last bit. It was standard historically to make pitches 50 m but in reality and straightened out on the rappel things are no more than 40 m. I've experienced this countless times on routes that everyone suggests bringing 2 ropes. I check the topos on big routes closely and make sure that in the event the 80 won't do it I can use a crack to build an anchor and down climb/aid the sections of the one - two raps as necessary. More often than not the 80 makes it down and in the event you do down aid it is more fun and less work than stacking, managing, and carrying 100m and not having the extra length to link. My thoughts.


FLAG
By Rob Fielding
From Las Vegas, NV
Nov 12, 2012
Third pillar of dana descent.

You'll see good use of a 80 @ red rocks as well. Anywhere in black velvet canyon and whiskey peak.


FLAG
By Rob T
Nov 12, 2012

Shune's, 4 pitches, all ledges, no hanging.

That IC and the other crags above.


FLAG
By S Denny
From Carbondale, CO
Nov 12, 2012

I've also heard that you can rap off of most of the desert towers in the Moab area with just an 80


FLAG
By doligo
Nov 12, 2012
Jose Cuervo Fruitcups dirtbag style

Kevin Connolly wrote:
i remember how much psyched you were on the 80 in ophir.


Imagine how rad it would be at the Rotary Park! You can belay all the way from the ice rink.


FLAG
By Stiles
From the mountains
Nov 13, 2012
Rough

Ay, l see-- the extra length sits on the ground.


FLAG
By Jake Jones
From The Eastern Flatlands
Nov 13, 2012
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.

martinharris wrote:
They r sick in Indian creek many pitches that u used to have a tag you can just lower off of now. So for those monster 140 foot pitches it is lighter and more convieant than 2 ropes


Please don't try to lower off the anchors of a 140 ft route with an 80m rope.


FLAG
By Abel Jones
From Hickory, NC
Nov 13, 2012
Nice Crisp day for an FA

Normally routes are an overestimated "140" feet which often takes into account wandering. The straight line is less and the 80 usually makes it. Knots in the ends fellas! Ive had an 80m stretch the books "165" many times.


FLAG
By 20 kN
From Hawaii
Nov 13, 2012

Ryan Williams wrote:
A lot of new areas are bolted for 70 and 80 meter ropes.

That is such crap ethic. Not being able to climb a sport route because I dont have an 80m rope is outrageous. If someone bolted a climb like that in my area, I would add a subrap anchor. Seriously, it only takes one extra bolt to add a subrap anchor and it means the 99% of people who dont have 80m ropes can use it. We are talking about less than a 4% increase in overall cost to add the anchor.

Eighty meter ropes (and even 70m ropes) should never become the standard. That is just wasteful. First off, they are expensive as hell, upwards of $300. Then once you get a core shot, which if you are falling like a mofo on a sport route it wont be long, then you are left with 75m of useless rope that cannot be used on your 80m climbs. Talk about an easy way to pointlessly blow a load of cash.

I am fine with creating 120+ foot pitches, but if you do, please add a subrap anchor so the 95% of climbers with 60m ropes can climb it. No one wants to drag two ropes up a single pitch sport climb, that kind of defeats the point of it being a sport climb.


FLAG
By Jake Jones
From The Eastern Flatlands
Nov 13, 2012
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.

Interesting point. Just for shits and giggles, let's say you have an 80m cliffline that has, oh, 35 routes on it. What's cheaper? Adding an extra bolt to each route, or having 10 more meters of rope? Of course, then the argument could be that everyone who wants to climb there has to have an extra 10 meters (at least- most people I know don't have 70m ropes) which would of course be more "wasteful". I see your point, I just don't find it as outrageous or view it as wasteful. If you're using it, you're not wasting it.


FLAG
By camhead
From Vandalia, Appalachia
Nov 13, 2012
You stay away from mah pig!

20 kN wrote:
That is such crap ethic. Not being able to climb a sport route because I dont have an 80m rope is outrageous. If someone bolted a climb like that in my area, I would add a subrap anchor. Seriously, it only takes one extra bolt to add a subrap anchor and it means the 99% of people who dont have 80m ropes can use it. We are talking about less than a 4% increase in overall cost to add the anchor. Eighty meter ropes (and even 70m ropes) should never become the standard. That is just wasteful. First off, they are expensive as hell, upwards of $300. Then once you get a core shot, which if you are falling like a mofo on a sport route it wont be long, then you are left with 75m of useless rope that cannot be used on your 80m climbs. Talk about an easy way to pointlessly blow a load of cash. I am fine with creating 120+ foot pitches, but if you do, please add a subrap anchor so the 95% of climbers with 60m ropes can climb it. No one wants to drag two ropes up a single pitch sport climb, that kind of defeats the point of it being a sport climb.


Uhhhh... what if that had been the consensus when 60m started replacing 50m? We would have a lot of lame routes that ended in the middle of walls.

Not to mention, sport routes that require 80m are very much still anomalies right now; way less than 1% of all climbs. It all depends on the climb.


FLAG
By 20 kN
From Hawaii
Nov 13, 2012

Jake Jones wrote:
Interesting point. Just for shits and giggles, let's say you have an 80m cliffline that has, oh, 35 routes on it. What's cheaper? Adding an extra bolt to each route, or having 10 more meters of rope? Of course, then the argument could be that everyone who wants to climb there has to have an extra 10 meters (at least- most people I know don't have 70m ropes) which would of course be more "wasteful". I see your point, I just don't find it as outrageous or view it as wasteful. If you're using it, you're not wasting it.

It is not wasteful in that it is not useful to the climber. It is wasteful in that it costs you significantly more money. Eighty meter ropes do not last any longer than 60m ropes if you are using them on climbs that require 80m ropes. That means that instead of having to replace a $200 rope, you get to replace a $270 one in the same amount of time. What is worse is that no one actually has 80m ropes so you are bolting a line that no one can climb. I know quite a lot of climbers, many who are professionals and climb upwards of solid 5.13, and I can only think of one sport climber that has an 80m rope. I own 13 ropes, and 12 of them are 60m ropes, and one is a 70m. My friend owns a guiding shop and outdoor equipment retailer. He probably has 25 ropes. Guess how many are 80m ropes? Zero. That is my point. It wastes money and not many American sport climbers even have an 80m rope, nor are they going to buy them when 99% of sport climbs in America dont require them.

camhead wrote:
We would have a lot of lame routes that ended in the middle of walls.
Your example is invalid because I said that there is no issue with using subrap anchors. If anchors are installed in 30m intervals, you can make the route end at the pearly gates, and those who dont want to climb the whole thing can end sooner with their 60m rope.


FLAG
By Keenan Waeschle
From Bozeman, MT
Nov 13, 2012
on top of the RNWF <br />June 2012

I bought an 80 for ice climbing and then used it all summer on rock. The only disadvantage I can come up with is how much it sucks to coil with your hands. Worth the extra cash for the length. really isn't that heavy. The ability to run 80 meter pitches on both ice and rock is awesome. half the belays, twice as fast. 40 meter raps are really long and work in place of doubles most of the time. When you compare the price to that of doubles they're quite a bit cheaper.

stop bitching and pick one up for yourself.


FLAG
By camhead
From Vandalia, Appalachia
Nov 13, 2012
You stay away from mah pig!

20 kN wrote:
If anchors are installed in 30m intervals, you can make the route end at the pearly gates, and those who dont want to climb the whole thing can end sooner with their 60m rope.


Should that logic extend to trad craggin areas, too? Should bolted anchors at 30m be the norm at Indian Creek?


FLAG
By Dobson
From Butte, MT
Nov 13, 2012

No need to complain. Just tag a line. If the weight is too much, drag the tag line up later. The 80m rope is just a convenience.

Speaking of convenience: What routes in Hyalite benefit from an 80m line? I've never found myself wanting one. The pitches just aren't that long if you like belaying in comfy spots. Especially considering that 2 50m halves give you more for less weight and cost.

Phillip


FLAG
By slim
Administrator
Nov 13, 2012
tomato, tomotto, kill mike amato.

i got my 80 for $212, shipped to my door. your comment about length of routes being unethical is comical. really????

a 140' route is a rope stretcher to lower with an 80 (very similar to a 120' route with a 70m, or a 100 foot route with a 60m).

is owning an 80 a good idea? depends on where you are using it. if you are climbing at jtree, vedauwoo, etc, where the routes just arent't that long, then obviously it won't be used to its full potential.

other places with long pitches, long raps, etc (red rocks, the desert, the black, etc) the extra length comes in handy.

also, the extra weight... again.... really???? the only time you really carry the extra weight is on the approach. less ice cream, more wheaties....


FLAG
By Nick Stayner
From The Magic City
Nov 13, 2012
Nick Stayner near the crux. Ryan Minton photo.

I"d add Devils Tower to the "spots where an 80m is useful" list. I believe a number of the harder routes on the Incredible Hulk are equipped for rapping with a single 80m line as well.

And speaking of the Hulk, a couple of hardmen I know do massive linkups of multiple Hulk routes using an 80. I don't know whether they used it for the 40m raps or because they found that extra 10m of rope that much more effective for their pitch-linking structure. My guess is the extra 10m was just an added benefit as they were simuling much of the routes anyway.


FLAG
By Jake Jones
From The Eastern Flatlands
Nov 13, 2012
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.

20 kN wrote:
It is not wasteful in that it is not useful to the climber. It is wasteful in that it costs you significantly more money. Eighty meter ropes do not last any longer than 60m ropes if you are using them on climbs that require 80m ropes. That means that instead of having to replace a $200 rope, you get to replace a $270 one in the same amount of time. What is worse is that no one actually has 80m ropes so you are bolting a line that no one can climb. I know quite a lot of climbers, many who are professionals and climb upwards of solid 5.13, and I can only think of one sport climber that has an 80m rope. I own 13 ropes, and 12 of them are 60m ropes, and one is a 70m. My friend owns a guiding shop and outdoor equipment retailer. He probably has 25 ropes. Guess how many are 80m ropes? Zero. That is my point. It wastes money and not many American sport climbers even have an 80m rope, nor are they going to buy them when 99% of sport climbs in America dont require them.


Fair enough. If 99% of American bolted lines don't require them, it's a non issue. And if only one percent (probably less) use that "ethic" it is hardly an ethic. Nothing is forcing anyone to buy an 80m rope. You can use a tag line, or just climb the other 99%. I see 80m ropes as a specialty piece.

Most people that climb, free climb, and most people that free climb don't own mechanical ascenders or etriers (this is just a logical guess, maybe they do, but it's unlikely). It's gear that is unique to a specific style of climbing. In the same manner, most climbers, as you've mentioned, don't climb super long enduro sport routes. There just aren't many out there. Those that do, or wish to, will probably buy that 80m rope because it is unique to that style of route.

Another good point was made about 50m being the old "standard" and now 60m is. This is just the beginning extension of that. It is not the gear that is the impetus for the developing. It is the opposite, isn't it?


FLAG
By Nick Stayner
From The Magic City
Nov 13, 2012
Nick Stayner near the crux. Ryan Minton photo.

20 kN wrote:
If anchors are installed in 30m intervals, you can make the route end at the pearly gates, and those who dont want to climb the whole thing can end sooner with their 60m rope.

What about the people with 50m ropes?? :)

...what a ridiculous argument.


FLAG
By Tony B
From Around Boulder, CO
Nov 13, 2012
Got Milk? How about forearm pump? Tony leads "Alan Nelson's Bulging Belly" (5.10, X) on the Lost and Found Flatiron. Belayer is Mark Ruocco. Photo by Bill Wright, 10/06.

waltereo wrote:
Absolutely no reasons to have a 80 m ropes.

Here is my approximate recollection of history:

1988: "There is no reason to have a 60Meter rope."
1998: "There is no reason to have a 70Meter rope."
2010: 70 Meter rope is pretty standard.
2012: "There is no reason to have an 80 meter rope."

History sighs... and then repeats itself. An 80M rope is only 10M longer than a 70M rope.

OK, time will tell. I'd use an 80M for my next rope. The reason is for running pitches together without simul climbing and to rap a little further without carrying a second rope. I'd use it in a good 9.4 just like my good 70M.

It weighs nothing extra except in my pack.
When I am on lead, the only rope I feel is that which has been used and is between me and the belay.
It requires me to carry nothing extra. I lead until I'm out of gear then I stop. If it is a finger crack, then my sets of stoppers probably got me there on 2 lbs of gear with one every 10-15'. Maybe I placed a few cams too.

waltereo wrote:
90% trad route pitches are around up to 40-50m length.

Where do you climb? Where I climb they are typically shorter and I generally run 2+ of them together. Most of the time I stop near the end of my rope. With a longer rope, that is fewer stops. Did the Sabre in 4 and The Diamond in 5 pitches. Wouldn't mind knocking that down a little next time.

All that said, if you are pushing your limits, better not have 80, or 70, or for that matter 60M of rope out. 2X the distance to gear, even if 0, plus 10-15% elongation of that rope length in a fall is going to land you in a bad spot much of the time. the 'Do Not Fall' adage comes back and the rope isn't for preventing all harm in a fall withthat much rope out, it's now to keep you from hitting the ground. But that's true at 70M besides.

BTW- alpine I climb on twin 70M's.


FLAG
By Keenan Waeschle
From Bozeman, MT
Nov 13, 2012
on top of the RNWF <br />June 2012

Dobson wrote:
What routes in Hyalite benefit from an 80m line? I've never found myself wanting one. The pitches just aren't that long if you like belaying in comfy spots. Especially considering that 2 50m halves give you more for less weight and cost. Phillip


I can make it down from the top tree on fat one. Just lowered off elevator shaft yesterday with 10 feet of rope to spare. Most routes in Cody can be rapped with a little creativity.

If I could find a set of 60m half ropes for under 250$ I'd go that route, but I'm broke and the 80 works well enough.

80's really aren't that heavy, maybe 10 lbs? I am also a manimal and lug 150 pound boulders to mountaintops just for fun.


FLAG
By Rob Dillon
Nov 13, 2012

My wasteful elitist 80m rope gets a lot of use at Indian Creek, and will get me down from the Hulk via the Venturi etc. I can link both pitches on Outer Limits and say 'take.'

An added bonus is that I've never been lowered off the end of my [profligate spendthrift] 80m rope.

It is indeed lighter than carrying 2 50- or 60m ropes.

Where it's not that great is about where you'd think: Penitente, Sand Rock, gritstone. Or when me and the pard each show up for Serenity/Sons with a rope, and mine is eighty meters long. Pulled up a lot of rope that day. If you haven't figured it out by now, it's a cragging rope for places with long pitches.

I apologize for buying such a stupid rope and furthering this regrettable trend. Kids these days!


FLAG
By Bud Martin
From Bozeman, MT
Nov 15, 2012

Dobson wrote:
What routes in Hyalite benefit from an 80m line? I've never found myself wanting one.


As I've found, Mummy 2 early season, Good Lookin' One, Dribbles, Silken Falls & Slot. Also a few routes on the Black Magic wall can be TR'ed with an 80.


Keenan Waeschle wrote:
I can make it down from the top tree on fat one. Just lowered off elevator shaft yesterday with 10 feet of rope to spare.


Elevator Shaft can be done easily with a 70m cord.


FLAG
By S Denny
From Carbondale, CO
Nov 15, 2012

Jake Jones wrote:
Please don't try to lower off the anchors of a 140 ft route with an 80m rope.


thing about it is beyond 35m most people are just guessing. You can lower off most 140's and even 150's sometimes more as they're marked in the book. No one is actually measuring these, just letting you know that you can't get off with a 70. The next edition of the book will most certainly be more accurate on this with all the 80's kicking around the creek these days,

Nick Stayner wrote:
Incredible Hulk are equipped for rapping with a single 80m line as well. And speaking of the Hulk, a couple of hardmen I know do massive linkups of multiple Hulk routes using an 80.


linking the first 2 pitches on Positive requires an 80.


FLAG
By Pete Spri
Nov 15, 2012

20 kN wrote:
That is such crap ethic. Not being able to climb a sport route because I dont have an 80m rope is outrageous. If someone bolted a climb like that in my area, I would add a subrap anchor. Seriously, it only takes one extra bolt to add a subrap anchor and it means the 99% of people who dont have 80m ropes can use it. We are talking about less than a 4% increase in overall cost to add the anchor. Eighty meter ropes (and even 70m ropes) should never become the standard. That is just wasteful. First off, they are expensive as hell, upwards of $300. Then once you get a core shot, which if you are falling like a mofo on a sport route it wont be long, then you are left with 75m of useless rope that cannot be used on your 80m climbs. Talk about an easy way to pointlessly blow a load of cash. I am fine with creating 120+ foot pitches, but if you do, please add a subrap anchor so the 95% of climbers with 60m ropes can climb it. No one wants to drag two ropes up a single pitch sport climb, that kind of defeats the point of it being a sport climb.

Dude, if they are just using it for the convenience of lowering, nothing is stopping you from using 2 fiftys or sixtys.


FLAG


Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
Page 2 of 3.  <<First   <Prev   1  2  3   Next>   Last>>