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By Marc H
From Lafayette, CO
Sep 10, 2012
The Cathedral Spires in RMNP, left to right: Stiletto, Sharkstooth, Forbidden Tower, Petit Grepon, The Saber, The Foil, The Moon & The Jackknife.

Tony B wrote:
Better ask Elanor...


I'm also curious to see how she sets you straight.


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By J Q
Sep 10, 2012
Me again!

Dang, remember back when I had spunk of a youth and I pissed the entire MP nation off by making the remark that if you are looking for a climbing partner on-line than you are probably a sketchy climber yourself? Perhaps no one is climbing with you for a reason. If that is not true in your case, than it is most likely the case with your new "partner". I mean, it's not even a good idea when the bolts are negating much of the danger but multi pitch trad climbing? Yikes! That's like having un-protected anal sex on your first date.

On-line partner finding: about as safe as on-line dating, while drunk, with a dial up modem, and going raw dog.

Cheers!


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By Cor
Sep 10, 2012
black nasty

i think you are doing just fine murph!


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By Unassigned User
Sep 10, 2012

ZachR wrote:
That's the thing though. There was nothing wrong with his technique. There is something very wrong with his personality.


I call no hands on the brake hand a BIG problem with belay technique...


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By Em Cos
From Boulder, CO
Sep 10, 2012

ZachR wrote:
I didn't see the point in yelling at him since I knew immediately I would never climb with this guy again.


Right... glad you dodged that bullet. Care to help the rest of us dodge it too? I think we'd all like to never climb with him again.

ZachR wrote:
What he did wasn't the result of ignorance, but gross negligence.


I agree. How will you feel if you were to read an accident report in a few weeks caused by his gross negligence, which you might have helped prevent?

Sorry they were out of pretzels, man. Those things are delightful.


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By MJMobes
From The land of steady habits
Sep 10, 2012
modern man

Jonhy Q wrote:
Dang, remember back when I had spunk of a youth and I pissed the entire MP nation off by making the remark that if you are looking for a climbing partner on-line than you are probably a sketchy climber yourself? Perhaps no one is climbing with you for a reason. If that is not true in your case, than it is most likely the case with your new "partner". I mean, it's not even a good idea when the bolts are negating much of the danger but multi pitch trad climbing? Yikes! That's like having un-protected anal sex on your first date. On-line partner finding: about as safe as on-line dating, while drunk, with a dial up modem, and going raw dog. Cheers!


I agree 99% and the analogy of unprotected anal sex on the first date is a good one.


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By Ryan Abernathey
From La Jolla, CA
Sep 10, 2012
At Rock Garden Valley

David Horgan wrote:
For what it's worth, I've met 4 of my principal partners online, some of whom I've been climbing with for over 10 years and now are good friends.


Jonhy Q wrote:
On-line partner finding: about as safe as on-line dating, while drunk, with a dial up modem, and going raw dog.


I am new to climbing, and I recently moved across the country. I didn't have anyone to climb with. I have since met several partners through this site, and without exception they have been friendly, fun, and extremely safe. It is wrong (and offensive) to say that everyone looking for partners online is sketchy.


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By Old and Busted
From Centennial, CO
Sep 10, 2012
Stabby

First chance you get, very calmly say something like "Hey, thats a really nice looking phone. Mind if I check it out?" Ask where the SDS is, pull it out and hand it to him, then chuck it.
And Jake- please note that you are the only one not ignoring elenor.


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By Jake Jones
From Richmond, VA
Sep 10, 2012
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.

Wannabe wrote:
Jake, I can't fault you on the complaints about Ellenor and her posting. No issue there. My concern is this idea in your post that you need to be "polite" about finding out if your potential partner knows what to do. I just come out and ask now, "Do you know what you're doing?" I actually try to be a little confrontational about it without being too much of a dick. Its interesting to see people's different reactions but let's face it-- at bottom this is about my life. I'm willing to ruffle a few feathers for my life and I think we should all be willing to do that. I'm sure my tact would change if I was camping by myself at NRG for the summer partnerless but that sounds like a special situation to me. Mores and taboos are fine in some settings but I'm just not sure they belong in climbing. Honestly most people chuckle about my question and proceed to explain their belay device to me. I have yet to catch one of them being inattentive and I think in part that's because everybody is kinda clear that this is serious. I did watch an acquaintance answer a cellphone while belaying and I probably wasn't enough of a dick about that. I yelled at him till he put it away but it took a bit. People have some crazy ideas out there.


Yeah, cellphone while belaying, or even carrying on a conversation, I'm probably taking at the next bolt, or on gear, getting to a rap, and coming down, and that would most likely be the end of my day.

There is a difference between an acquaintance, and a stranger as well. If I know my buddy knows this guy, and he's doing something retarded like that, I would probably give him the stink eye and a healthy wtf.

All I was saying is that you can't really go demanding that people prove their worth to you when you're the one asking to get a catch from a group of people that came there together. You have to be kind of subtle about it, and pay attention. There's nothing wrong with that. If you pay attention and you see some shit that freaks you out, then you just go on about your day. You'd be surprised how many people just take off for weeks at a time with no real plan and no partner. Ask anyone that does that- they'll tell you that you can ask a few general questions, but if you come off like you're giving them an examination, you'll likely get the bird and the boot for the day. After all, it is you asking them for the favor. They're not asking you to lead for them so that they can log some hours on the 'ole GriGri.


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By Jake Jones
From Richmond, VA
Sep 10, 2012
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.

El Tigre wrote:
And Jake- please note that you are the only one not ignoring elenor.


Point taken.


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By Avi Katz
Sep 10, 2012

I've had sketchy shit like that happen to me. I also have some training through AMGA and other organizations, so when I go out with someone new my first instinct is to get into teaching/guiding mode with them. Maybe build some anchors, talk about commands, how much slack I like, etc.

There are times I get a little self conscious and think maybe I'm being paranoid, or know-it-allish, or something. Then I remember the last time I got lax and was careless my belayer decked me 50' from anchors to ground. That helps me remind myself: F*ck everything else, if I am not confident in them, WE ARE NOT CLIMBING TOGETHER. If I climb with someone, it's because I have complete faith that they will catch me. On the flip side, I would expect them to have the same confidence in my skills.

As much as climbing feels like a personal, ego-driven, "self" sport, when you tie into a rope, it becomes a team sport.

In this situation it sounds like your belayer had enough experience to know he was doing something grossly negligent and dumb. I would have rapped off, chewed him out, and quickly left.

I've seen people out climbing pull similar stunts and called them on it. To do any less would be a disservice to the climbing community- when anyone is laying broken and bloody at their belayer's feet, it is all of our responsibility to come to their aid.

If your not part of the solution, your part of the problem.


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By BigJuggsjohnson
Sep 10, 2012
Stones

kevin murphy wrote:
I have another debate. It's been going back and forth for a while. It may have been at fault. We were climbing rip chord in Bo Can, me belaying, buddy climbing, feeding rope as he clipped, normal, he fell, maybe once or twice, no big deal. There a big move to a jug, he grabbed the draw, which I could't see, I feed him rope normally, with a bit of slack left, to climb easily, right when he clipped the draw he lets go without saying take, fall, something. Falls 10 feet, no big deal, all air. But I got the feeling from the third in our group, and him, that I did something wrong. What do you think?

Talk it out. Put it on the table and tell them how u feel about it
Most likely they will reassure u that it's all cool or may get u some pointers on what they expect on your belay, points for improval.


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By KevinF
From Granby, CT
Sep 10, 2012

was his name Jorge?

I had a similar experience in the Gunks - P1 he answers a phone call while lead belaying. P2 i discover he can't build gear anchors just before he sets off (i obviously took the lead) P3 drops my gear. Nightmare.


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By J Q
Sep 10, 2012
Me again!

Ryan Abernathey wrote:
I am new to climbing.



That's kinda the whole point. Just wear a condom.


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By MAKB
From Front Range, CO
Sep 10, 2012
Metrosexual (7a+)

Ben Botelho wrote:
you should DEFINITELY put his name on MP so people know not to climb with this ass-clown in the future.


hahaha "ass-clown"
Good idea though


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By VerticalUrge
Sep 10, 2012

wait, was he from new jersey? that may be standard belay technique


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By Ben Brotelho
From Albany, NY
Sep 11, 2012
Epic free solo with a pack on

VerticalUrge wrote:
wait, was he from new jersey? that may be standard belay technique



ha ha

At least the OP was able to enjoy meatballs and spetzel...they do a good job at the brauhaus, with the capers and everything!


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By Tony B
From Around Boulder, CO
Sep 11, 2012
Got Milk? How about forearm pump? Tony leads "Alan Nelson's Bulging Belly" (5.10, X) on the Lost and Found Flatiron. Belayer is Mark Ruocco. Photo by Bill Wright, 10/06.

Tony B wrote:
No opinion since I wasn't there. Better ask Elanor...

BigJuggsjohnson wrote:
Talk it out. Put it on the table and tell them how u feel about it Most likely they will reassure u that it's all cool or may get u some pointers on what they expect on your belay, points for improval.

He shoots, he SCORES...and the crowd goes wild!!!

Elanor, do 'u' have any idea who and what Kevin Murphy is in the climbing world? I believe the term Journeyman might well relate the idea. You might want to consider your audience before offering advice.


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By Eric Coffman
Sep 11, 2012
mountainlion

I think ZachR was the guy on the phone texting and his partner was leading. He still doesn't know why the leader bailed on the climb came down and went home. Now he does realize what he did was wrong. At least that's why I think he hasn't revealed the perp's name (because he's the perp).


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By AnthonyM
Sep 11, 2012
Maroon Bells-Bell Cord Couloir

Tristan B wrote:
Why didn't you just text him for some slack?


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Awesome Idea...

I had a girl I was climbing with answer her phone, so I anchored her to a tree and escaped the belay until she was ready to climb.

Another buddy of mine was on his phone constantly... we told him he would lose it, if he didn't put it away. He stumbled (while texting) and dropped it into a crack that was six inches longer than his arm. He finally got it in his hand when he dropped it even further into the crack (10+ feet). We decided that to continue to call it would be a great idea.

But yes-next time just text him to give you slack.
That's an awesome solution.


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By kilonot
Sep 11, 2012

While a public flaying may be justified, I don't believe a big black book of sketchy partners is the answer. It might make for great reading on the interweb but will quickly be lost in the shuffle. Being cautious with who you let belay you will be even more effective.

There were plenty of signs he was not what he represented himself to be. His climbing was good.

1. Used 'TAKE in SLACK' instead of 'TAKE' or ''Up rope" when following.
2. Placed tipped out cams.
3. Placed an #2 BD nut on lead (AID only, 2KN printed on it).
4. Had never heard of a 'jesus nut' and seemed to think it needed to be a nut.
5. Belayed me off the anchors with a ATC-XP.
6. Cell phone issue.

I corrected 2-5 (forgot about 1) as they were all ignorance. In hindsight I should have called it after #5.

Never trust a ginger!


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By JoeP
From Littleton, CO
Sep 11, 2012

ZachR wrote:
5. Belayed me off the anchors with a ATC-XP. 6. Cell phone issue.


Bit confused. The belyaing while texting happened on the first pitch of a route, and you subsequently brought him up, rapped, and called it a day. Yet, at some point during the day he belayed you off the anchors with an ATC-XP. Did that happen before the belaying and texting? If so, not sure I would have kept climbing with someone that did not understand the fundamentals of their gear and demonstrated such incompetence. You are a much braver/trusting man than I.


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By J Q
Sep 11, 2012
Me again!

ZachR wrote:
Never trust a ginger!



Or a beginner climber looking for a partner on line!


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By kilonot
Sep 11, 2012

JoeP wrote:
Bit confused. The belyaing while texting happened on the first pitch of a route, and you subsequently brought him up, rapped, and called it a day. Yet, at some point during the day he belayed you off the anchors with an ATC-XP. Did that happen before the belaying and texting? If so, not sure I would have kept climbing with someone that did not understand the fundamentals of their gear and demonstrated such incompetence. You are a much braver/trusting man than I.


They happened in the order given. I agree. I should have bailed after the previous climb.


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By Tony B
From Around Boulder, CO
Sep 11, 2012
Got Milk? How about forearm pump? Tony leads "Alan Nelson's Bulging Belly" (5.10, X) on the Lost and Found Flatiron. Belayer is Mark Ruocco. Photo by Bill Wright, 10/06.

BigJuggsjohnson wrote:
I don't think it matters to me who I give advice to

And therein lies the problem. Sigh...
I'd make more fun of you, but as a friend once put it when discussing a minor crime we witnessed and my other pal's (who apprehended the perp) reaction to it:
"So here we have a guy that is clearly mentally ill and did something really stupid, and on the other hand we have a counselor making fun of them in public. Who is the bigger asshat?"
Seriously though...
For a relatively newbie climber, opinions are one thing, and checking them in with other climbers with some frequency is probably good, but continuous insistence on your point of view and your almost religious witness as to how situations you are unfamiliar with should have gone... and the continuous provision of your advice to journeyman level climbers is foolish and sanctimonious at best and delusional and arrogant at worst. And frankly, I'm not sure if your advice on the climbing narrative or the social narrative is more out of place.

I don't want to see anyone following you around the net stalking you to make fun, and I certainly won't, but I'm not here to validate your arrogance. I'm going to point out at this time how more experienced climbers might perceive your participation in these discussions.
Rather than make friends and earn respect and credibility in this community... or at least some benevolence... you are going to create a void around yourself. Many of the 'big kids' I know are pretty generous with their time both socially and with respect to climbing, but most will avoid certain kinds of BS and the source of it. Frankly, I am telling you that you are going to end up ostracizing yourself from the remainder of the community at some point. Count yourself pretty much out with me and my crew, barring some serious change in behavior.


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