What to use for a quick safety line?

I was just hoping for some input on what to use for a quick safety line to use while setting up my top rope anchors.

Do you think it is safe to take a 7mm cordellette and tie loops into both ends using figure eight knots; girth hitch one end to a thick tree and use the other loop to connect myself to the line using a locking carabiner on my belay loop. Any problem with this quick safety setup? Will the line hold if I accidently fall over the cliff?

1. Get some instruction, in person. Don't be another statistic.
2. Read a book on climbing anchors. (Craig Luebben's book has the exact scenario you're referring to)
3. Use a fixed climbing rope + a prussic combo. ( books.google.com/books?id=I…)
4. Rap to the anchor, if possible. Attach to the anchor via some kind of personal anchor system (slings, PAS, etc). Rap after setting up a TR anchor.
5. Build an anchor away from the edge and have a partner belay you over the edge and back up.
6. The list goes on...and is very dependent upon your experience and environment.

You have to be very careful about falling on static tethers; even short factor-1 falls on a static tether can generate a large force, to the point of breaking the tether (or you!). Here is a good link that explains the problem: dmmclimbing.com/knowledge/h…

I agree with Ryan that Craig Luebben's anchor book is an excellent resource. Craig's advice to use a (dynamic) climbing rope that you adjust with a clove hitch is a much safer alternative to what you are proposing. However, climbing is all about risk management: if you have a low risk of falling and use a short static tether, that would certainly be better than nothing!

Develop the skills and techniques to not put youself in a position to fall onto an anchor

- have a safety line anchored above you
- tie in with the rope when above the anchor
- dont put yourself in a position to fall on static materials

However there may be times when no good options exists when setting up certain TRs

In those cases always tie in with the rope or use a dynamic lanyard

Use a MINIMUM of 8mm dynamic HALF ROPE (single rated ropes are "safer") with a fig8/barrel knot at the ends

This should survive ONE factor 2 fall when NEW with an 80kg test weight ... It will not however take repeated falls ... So replace it after every decent fall on the anchor which shouldnt be happening anyways ... And every year or two regardless

A study done by the quebec climbing federations shows that that the first factor 2 fall on an 8-9 mm half rope is around 4-6 kn ... With fig 8 terminators and an alpine butterly midway

For additional security use a 10mm+ single rope as a lanyard as only this will take repeated factor 2 whippers, which if you did you should get ur head examined

U can also use a purcell but i personally find it a biatch to adjust

Personally i use a 3m 8mm half rope tied in a fig8 to the harness, 2 butterlies inline and terminated with a barrel knot on the biner

Im pretty confident that the factor 2 worst case scenario catch will be ~6 kn or less which corresponds i believe to european workplace safety standards

;)

grimper.ca/escalade_montagn…Études%20corrigée%20sur%20les%20longes%20.pdf

british-caving.org.uk/rope/…

Am I picturing this incorrectly? You want to drop a toprope on anchors that are at the edge of a cliff, but want to make sure you don't accidentally slip off, so you tie one end of a static line to a tree, and the other to yourself, with just enough slack to get you to the edge. Sounds fine to me. Even in a worst case scenario, I don't see how you could come remotely close to a factor 1 fall in this situation (let alone a factor 2) unless you got a running start. I've set up quick backup tethers off trees with long slings or tubular numerous times (pretty much any time I'm working at a cliff's edge). In these situations, the worst possible fall would be maybe a factor .1, and that's not including any friction from my ass sliding over the edge, or my body absorbing any shock. PMI 7mm is rated to 9.3kN- I'd surely trust it to keep the wind from blowing me over the edge. I'd prefer full strength slings/webbing/rope, however.

That being said, starting a question with "Do you think it's safe to. . ." is a surefire way to undermine anyone's belief in your ability not to get yourself killed. So maybe go read that book after all.

Hey Thanks for all the great input everyone. Much appreciated.

This is one of those things where you have to make a judgement call on a case by case basis.

In general, if you're remotely competent, you can just 'batman' (hand over hand) down some anchored slings to the spot where you want to place the anchor (and tie the slings off so there's no tension/potential for a high FF fall). You can then use a PAS (clipping the right loops so there's no slack) to attach to that anchor and deal with the rope.

Of course, if you are incapable of 'batman'-ing down the slings (or getting to the anchor safely is not possible) then you risk a static fall. In this case, you can do a preliminary anchor, rap down to the real anchor, set it up, do an intermediate tie-in (alpine butterfly), and climb back up being belayed from the top. But this is rather outrageous.

fx101 wrote:This is one of those things where you have to make a judgement call on a case by case basis. In general, if you're remotely competent, you can just 'batman' (hand over hand) down some anchored slings to the spot where you want to place the anchor (and tie the slings off so there's no tension/potential for a high FF fall). You can then use a PAS (clipping the right loops so there's no slack) to attach to that anchor and deal with the rope. Of course, if you are incapable of 'batman'-ing down the slings (or getting to the anchor safely is not possible) then you risk a static fall. In this case, you can do a preliminary anchor, rap down to the real anchor, set it up, do an intermediate tie-in (alpine butterfly), and climb back up being belayed from the top. But this is rather outrageous.

Ryan Nevius wrote: Did you seriously suggest "batmanning" to a beginner climber as a safe method for getting to anchors?

I'd use my climbing rope instead. Tie the end around a tree with a bowline, then clip it to your belay loop with a locker and a clove hitch (or a butterfly if you don't like that). 7mm is better than nothing, but...

In most cases I find I can do most of the work of a TR set-up without getting close to the edge. I start by tying the master point, add the biners, then I drape it over the edge and go to whatever anchors I'm using and do the adjusting there, away from the edge. If you have to reach over the edge to set up, you can finish by clipping half of your rope through the master point before you get up, untie, and toss your safety end down.

Hope this helps.

If you're using a static rope for a TR anchor you can use a prussik to stay safe. Tie the prussik to the static line after you have setup the first part of the anchor. Attach the prussik to your belay loop then slide the prussik along the static until you get to the edge. You can figure out the master point while being tied in.

Obvious troll is obvious.