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What is Happening to the V-Scale?
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Nov 17, 2011
O Yeaaaaaaa
So, Adam Ondra just did a first ascent that he is rating V16. He describes it as 3 moves of V10, 4 moves of V13, 3 moves of V8, then 2 moves of V12. What is happening to the V-scale? I was under the impression that a boulder problem was rated based on the single hardest move on the problem. That would make this V16 a V13, right?

I'm not trying to bag on Adam Ondra. He is certainly not the first or only climber to rate boulder problems this way. It just seems to me that the V-rating system is being treated more and more like the YDS. WTF? Am I way off base here?
JSlack
Joined Jul 22, 2009
144 points
Administrator
Nov 17, 2011
tomato, tomotto, kill mike amato.
well, obviously 10 moves of V10 is going to be a helluva lot harder than one move of V10. the rating takes into account the amount of effort required to send it. think of it in terms of the total area under a curve, as opposed to the peak value of the curve. slim
Joined Dec 1, 2004
2,044 points
Nov 17, 2011
Taken at MWV Icefest 2014.
Jake Sahl wrote:
So, Adam Ondra just did a first ascent that he is rating V16. He describes it as 3 moves of V10, 4 moves of V13, 3 moves of V8, then 2 moves of V12. What is happening to the V-scale? I was under the impression that a boulder problem was rated based on the single hardest move on the problem. That would make this V16 a V13, right? I'm not trying to bag on Adam Ondra. He is certainly not the first or only climber to rate boulder problems this way. It just seems to me that the V-rating system is being treated more and more like the YDS. WTF? Am I way off base here?


The irony is that YDS also was originally intended to only reflect the hardest move on the route. Makes sense when you consider the context, but as standards have gone up it has become obvious that the difficult of the single hardest move is often not a reliable measure of how hard something is, be it on routes or boulder problems.

Edited: Found the description.

climbingczar.lt11.com/about-2/

Argue at will!
cjdrover
From Somerville, MA
Joined Feb 18, 2009
388 points
Nov 17, 2011
He onsights 14c....he can do what he wants. He can make up his own Ondra Decimal System (ODS) if he wants to. Based on ODS, the difficulty of the route will be directly related to the decibels of his whining when he falls. Francisco Di Poi
From Boulder, CO
Joined Sep 11, 2009
26 points
Nov 17, 2011
sloping
Francisco Di Poi wrote:
Based on ODS, the difficulty of the route will be directly related to the decibels of his whining when he falls.


+1

LOL. Awesome. I've often wondered if anybody else found his little girl tantrums fucking annoying.
koreo
From Denver, CO
Joined Aug 24, 2009
90 points
Nov 17, 2011
sloping
Willa wrote:
He could still crimp your face off and eat it in between bouts of onsighting 5.14c...little girl tantrums and all.


He can climb harder than me, of course but I really doubt he could go toe to toe with me if that's what you're implying. Even with the little girl tantrums.
koreo
From Denver, CO
Joined Aug 24, 2009
90 points
Nov 17, 2011
Whaaaat?
slim wrote:
the total area under a curve, as opposed to the peak value of the curve.


Nice explanation.
BackCountry
From Ogden, UT
Joined Oct 29, 2009
421 points
Nov 17, 2011
Humboldt Bouldering
koreo wrote:
+1 LOL. Awesome. I've often wondered if anybody else found his little girl tantrums fucking annoying.


I think we all agree on that one
Josh Kornish
From Missoula, MT
Joined Sep 16, 2009
513 points
Nov 17, 2011
Buenos Dias!
koreo wrote:
He can climb harder than me, of course but I really doubt he could go toe to toe with me if that's what you're implying. Even with the little girl tantrums.

Kick his ass Sea Bass.

And for the record, I think his little girl tantrums are insulting to little girls. *










* there, I said it.
-sp
From East-Coast
Joined May 25, 2007
80 points
Nov 17, 2011
sloping
-sp wrote:
Kick his ass Sea Bass. And for the record, I think his little girl tantrums are insulting to little girls. * * there, I said it.


lol
koreo
From Denver, CO
Joined Aug 24, 2009
90 points
Nov 17, 2011
Humboldt Bouldering
David Sahalie wrote:
he sounds like a cow being eviscerated


haha
Josh Kornish
From Missoula, MT
Joined Sep 16, 2009
513 points
Nov 17, 2011
Bouldering Math

V5 + V7 = V9

Try climbing a V whatever, down climb it and do it again. It will obviously be harder the second time up. That is why V13 moves feel like V16 after you have done the prior section of a few V10 moves, a few V12 moves, and so on.

Power Endurance
bradyk
Joined Jun 7, 2010
68 points
Nov 17, 2011
Near Sky Pong Below Taylor Peak
So, with that logic, a problem with term v2 moves in a row is probably a v10. See how that doesn't really work? ZANE
From Cleveland, OH
Joined May 6, 2011
43 points
Nov 17, 2011
The Shield
It is the V-Scale... its probably drunk. Sam Lightner, Jr.
From Lander, WY
Joined Apr 9, 2006
2,248 points
Nov 18, 2011
It's called V-Jaculation, it's the only way you can stroke your V-Go JPVallone
Joined Aug 25, 2004
204 points
Administrator
Nov 18, 2011
tomato, tomotto, kill mike amato.
ZANE wrote:
So, with that logic, a problem with term v2 moves in a row is probably a v10. See how that doesn't really work?



it isn't really a linear scale like that. a problem with 10 V2 moves in a row is probably v3 (for the sake of argument, let's assume so). a problem with 10 V3 moves in a row would probably be in the V4 range, etc. a problem with 1E8 moves in a row (with no rest) would likely be V10.

or, a problem with 10 V9 moves in a row might be V10.

or, a problem with 1 V10 move might be V10.
slim
Joined Dec 1, 2004
2,044 points
Nov 18, 2011
Obi Wan Ryobi - Darth Vader Crag, Rumney NH
koreo wrote:
+1 LOL. Awesome. I've often wondered if anybody else found his little girl tantrums fucking annoying.


Can't stand them.
Brendan Blanchard
From Boulder, CO
Joined Oct 18, 2010
309 points
Nov 19, 2011
 Morning Dew ,self portrait
Willa wrote:
He could still crimp your face off and eat it in between bouts of onsighting 5.14c...little girl tantrums and all.

You are so missing the point of climbing. How can you possibly defend Ondra when he is as well known for his tantrums as his remarkable ascents? Seems Adam misses the point as well, tossing wobblers like a little girl who lost the latest beauty paegent. Personal and spiritual growth will get him respect, and both are achievable through this adventure we call climbing.
s.price
From PS,CO
Joined Dec 1, 2010
1,363 points
Nov 19, 2011
s.price wrote:
You are so missing the point of climbing . . . . Seems Adam misses the point as well, tossing wobblers like a little girl who lost the latest beauty paegent.


Are you really telling Adam Ondra that he doesn't get the point of climbing?
Brendan N. (grayhghost)
From Salt Lake City, Utah
Joined Oct 26, 2006
396 points
Nov 19, 2011


So by this scale,
French = YDS = V???
6a+ = 5.10b = V3
7a = 5.11c/d = V5
8a = 5.13b = V11

Do I have this right? A lot of times I grade new routes I do based on the hardest boulder problem. For instance, Early Bird has a couple of V3 and V4 sections with a V5 finish. So I called it .12a/b?
I never know how to do this kind of stuff but that's how I came to it. Also, what if the final boulder problem has kind of a runnout but with great gear?

Do I have to get all British to make sense of it?
tenesmus
Joined Jan 7, 2004
2,615 points
Administrator
Nov 19, 2011
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after...
Ondra's sister is hot and she can throw all the tantrums she wants. She sends harder than me too. That's all I have to offer on the subject. Jake Jones
From Richmond, VA
Joined Jul 30, 2011
1,005 points
Administrator
Nov 19, 2011
Insurrection, 5.14c.  Photo Adam Sanders.
tenesmus wrote:
So by this scale, French = YDS = V??? 6a+ = 5.10b = V3 7a = 5.11c/d = V5 8a = 5.13b = V11 Do I have this right? A lot of times I grade new routes I do based on the hardest boulder problem. For instance, Early Bird has a couple of V3 and V4 sections with a V5 finish. So I called it .12a/b? I never know how to do this kind of stuff but that's how I came to it. Also, what if the final boulder problem has kind of a runnout but with great gear? Do I have to get all British to make sense of it?


No, you're confusing "Font" grades with French route grades. Font grades apply only to boulder problems. They use the same nomenclature but mean different things. Some people use capital letters when refering to font grades, so a Vll boulder problem would be "8A" and an .13b route would be "8a".
Monomaniac
From Morrison, CO
Joined Oct 26, 2006
17,131 points
Nov 20, 2011
mmmmmmonkey
Brendan Blanchard wrote:
Can't stand them.

Wobblers are cool. Where the hell did you learn how to climb?
Matt Sedor
From portland, or
Joined Jan 8, 2008
30 points
Nov 20, 2011
mmmmmmonkey
koreo wrote:
+1 LOL. Awesome. I've often wondered if anybody else found his little girl tantrums fucking annoying.

Its cool though....I bet you are cool as a cucumber as you destroy your project.
Matt Sedor
From portland, or
Joined Jan 8, 2008
30 points
Nov 20, 2011
pic taken in J-tree
Professional climbers need/want to get sponsored, and therefore grade inflation is here to stay.

When you go to your sponsor and say: 'I climbed into the new level of bouldering -> (V hardest problem ever climbed ) + 1' the sponsor says: 'Nice job here is a pair of shoes, a crash-pad, $3000, and a free trip to this new cool area where you can establish more problems that will make us money'.

When you go to your sponsor and say: 'I climbed a problem that was two grades easier than the hardest boulder to date -> (V hardest problem ever climbed) - 2' the sponsor says: 'who are you again?!?! here you can have this bag of chalk for just $5, I have fifteen of climbers like you camping in my backyard'.

So the grades will keep getting inflated, normal climbers will be both inspired and annoyed that our hardest problem is 10 grades easier than the hardest ever climbed, and then I will go climbing and have a great time notwithstanding what grade I am on.
Hamlet73
From Boulder, CO
Joined Aug 30, 2007
242 points
Nov 20, 2011
 Morning Dew ,self portrait
grayhghost wrote:
Are you really telling Adam Ondra that he doesn't get the point of climbing?
Yes,i am. Being one of the best doesn't mean you truly understand the true rewards of climbing, nor is it an excuse to be a little bitch. His parents are probably more to blame for allowing this as he grew up and became a young man. I am not questioning his talent, just his actions and motivation. To quote the non wobbler tossing Great Alex Lowe, "The best climber in the world is the one having the most FUN!"
s.price
From PS,CO
Joined Dec 1, 2010
1,363 points


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