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What is Happening to the V-Scale?
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By JSlack
Nov 17, 2011
O Yeaaaaaaa

So, Adam Ondra just did a first ascent that he is rating V16. He describes it as 3 moves of V10, 4 moves of V13, 3 moves of V8, then 2 moves of V12. What is happening to the V-scale? I was under the impression that a boulder problem was rated based on the single hardest move on the problem. That would make this V16 a V13, right?

I'm not trying to bag on Adam Ondra. He is certainly not the first or only climber to rate boulder problems this way. It just seems to me that the V-rating system is being treated more and more like the YDS. WTF? Am I way off base here?


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By slim
Administrator
Nov 17, 2011
tomato, tomotto, kill mike amato.

well, obviously 10 moves of V10 is going to be a helluva lot harder than one move of V10. the rating takes into account the amount of effort required to send it. think of it in terms of the total area under a curve, as opposed to the peak value of the curve.


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By cjdrover
From Somerville, MA
Nov 17, 2011
Taken at MWV Icefest 2014.

Jake Sahl wrote:
So, Adam Ondra just did a first ascent that he is rating V16. He describes it as 3 moves of V10, 4 moves of V13, 3 moves of V8, then 2 moves of V12. What is happening to the V-scale? I was under the impression that a boulder problem was rated based on the single hardest move on the problem. That would make this V16 a V13, right? I'm not trying to bag on Adam Ondra. He is certainly not the first or only climber to rate boulder problems this way. It just seems to me that the V-rating system is being treated more and more like the YDS. WTF? Am I way off base here?


The irony is that YDS also was originally intended to only reflect the hardest move on the route. Makes sense when you consider the context, but as standards have gone up it has become obvious that the difficult of the single hardest move is often not a reliable measure of how hard something is, be it on routes or boulder problems.

Edited: Found the description.

climbingczar.lt11.com/about-2/

Argue at will!


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By Francisco Di Poi
From Boulder, CO
Nov 17, 2011

He onsights 14c....he can do what he wants. He can make up his own Ondra Decimal System (ODS) if he wants to. Based on ODS, the difficulty of the route will be directly related to the decibels of his whining when he falls.


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By koreo
From Denver, CO
Nov 17, 2011
sloping <br />

Francisco Di Poi wrote:
Based on ODS, the difficulty of the route will be directly related to the decibels of his whining when he falls.


+1

LOL. Awesome. I've often wondered if anybody else found his little girl tantrums fucking annoying.


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By koreo
From Denver, CO
Nov 17, 2011
sloping <br />

Willa wrote:
He could still crimp your face off and eat it in between bouts of onsighting 5.14c...little girl tantrums and all.


He can climb harder than me, of course but I really doubt he could go toe to toe with me if that's what you're implying. Even with the little girl tantrums.


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By BackCountry
From West Point, UT
Nov 17, 2011
Whaaaat?

slim wrote:
the total area under a curve, as opposed to the peak value of the curve.


Nice explanation.


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By Josh Kornish
Nov 17, 2011
The Roach

koreo wrote:
+1 LOL. Awesome. I've often wondered if anybody else found his little girl tantrums fucking annoying.


I think we all agree on that one


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By -sp
From East-Coast
Nov 17, 2011
Buenos Dias!

koreo wrote:
He can climb harder than me, of course but I really doubt he could go toe to toe with me if that's what you're implying. Even with the little girl tantrums.

Kick his ass Sea Bass.

And for the record, I think his little girl tantrums are insulting to little girls. *










* there, I said it.


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By koreo
From Denver, CO
Nov 17, 2011
sloping <br />

-sp wrote:
Kick his ass Sea Bass. And for the record, I think his little girl tantrums are insulting to little girls. * * there, I said it.


lol


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By Josh Kornish
Nov 17, 2011
The Roach

David Sahalie wrote:
he sounds like a cow being eviscerated


haha


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By bradyk
Nov 17, 2011

Bouldering Math

V5 + V7 = V9

Try climbing a V whatever, down climb it and do it again. It will obviously be harder the second time up. That is why V13 moves feel like V16 after you have done the prior section of a few V10 moves, a few V12 moves, and so on.

Power Endurance


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By ZANE
From Cleveland, OH
Nov 17, 2011

So, with that logic, a problem with term v2 moves in a row is probably a v10. See how that doesn't really work?


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By Sam Lightner, Jr.
From Lander, WY
Nov 17, 2011
The Shield

It is the V-Scale... its probably drunk.


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By JPVallone
Nov 18, 2011

It's called V-Jaculation, it's the only way you can stroke your V-Go


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By slim
Administrator
Nov 18, 2011
tomato, tomotto, kill mike amato.

ZANE wrote:
So, with that logic, a problem with term v2 moves in a row is probably a v10. See how that doesn't really work?



it isn't really a linear scale like that. a problem with 10 V2 moves in a row is probably v3 (for the sake of argument, let's assume so). a problem with 10 V3 moves in a row would probably be in the V4 range, etc. a problem with 1E8 moves in a row (with no rest) would likely be V10.

or, a problem with 10 V9 moves in a row might be V10.

or, a problem with 1 V10 move might be V10.


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By Brendan Blanchard
From Strafford, NH
Nov 18, 2011
Obi Wan Ryobi - Darth Vader Crag, Rumney NH

koreo wrote:
+1 LOL. Awesome. I've often wondered if anybody else found his little girl tantrums fucking annoying.


Can't stand them.


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By s.price
From PS,CO
Nov 19, 2011
 Morning Dew ,self portrait

Willa wrote:
He could still crimp your face off and eat it in between bouts of onsighting 5.14c...little girl tantrums and all.

You are so missing the point of climbing. How can you possibly defend Ondra when he is as well known for his tantrums as his remarkable ascents? Seems Adam misses the point as well, tossing wobblers like a little girl who lost the latest beauty paegent. Personal and spiritual growth will get him respect, and both are achievable through this adventure we call climbing.


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By Brendan N. (grayhghost)
From Salt Lake City, Utah
Nov 19, 2011

s.price wrote:
You are so missing the point of climbing . . . . Seems Adam misses the point as well, tossing wobblers like a little girl who lost the latest beauty paegent.


Are you really telling Adam Ondra that he doesn't get the point of climbing?


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By tenesmus
Nov 19, 2011



So by this scale,
French = YDS = V???
6a+ = 5.10b = V3
7a = 5.11c/d = V5
8a = 5.13b = V11

Do I have this right? A lot of times I grade new routes I do based on the hardest boulder problem. For instance, Early Bird has a couple of V3 and V4 sections with a V5 finish. So I called it .12a/b?
I never know how to do this kind of stuff but that's how I came to it. Also, what if the final boulder problem has kind of a runnout but with great gear?

Do I have to get all British to make sense of it?


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By Jake Jones
From Richmond, VA
Nov 19, 2011
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.

Ondra's sister is hot and she can throw all the tantrums she wants. She sends harder than me too. That's all I have to offer on the subject.


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By Monomaniac
Administrator
From Morrison, CO
Nov 19, 2011
Insurrection, 5.14c.  Photo Adam Sanders.

tenesmus wrote:
So by this scale, French = YDS = V??? 6a+ = 5.10b = V3 7a = 5.11c/d = V5 8a = 5.13b = V11 Do I have this right? A lot of times I grade new routes I do based on the hardest boulder problem. For instance, Early Bird has a couple of V3 and V4 sections with a V5 finish. So I called it .12a/b? I never know how to do this kind of stuff but that's how I came to it. Also, what if the final boulder problem has kind of a runnout but with great gear? Do I have to get all British to make sense of it?


No, you're confusing "Font" grades with French route grades. Font grades apply only to boulder problems. They use the same nomenclature but mean different things. Some people use capital letters when refering to font grades, so a Vll boulder problem would be "8A" and an .13b route would be "8a".


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By Matt Sedor
From portland, or
Nov 20, 2011
mmmmmmonkey

Brendan Blanchard wrote:
Can't stand them.

Wobblers are cool. Where the hell did you learn how to climb?


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By Matt Sedor
From portland, or
Nov 20, 2011
mmmmmmonkey

koreo wrote:
+1 LOL. Awesome. I've often wondered if anybody else found his little girl tantrums fucking annoying.

Its cool though....I bet you are cool as a cucumber as you destroy your project.


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By Hamlet73
From Boulder, CO
Nov 20, 2011
pic taken in J-tree

Professional climbers need/want to get sponsored, and therefore grade inflation is here to stay.

When you go to your sponsor and say: 'I climbed into the new level of bouldering -> (V hardest problem ever climbed ) + 1' the sponsor says: 'Nice job here is a pair of shoes, a crash-pad, $3000, and a free trip to this new cool area where you can establish more problems that will make us money'.

When you go to your sponsor and say: 'I climbed a problem that was two grades easier than the hardest boulder to date -> (V hardest problem ever climbed) - 2' the sponsor says: 'who are you again?!?! here you can have this bag of chalk for just $5, I have fifteen of climbers like you camping in my backyard'.

So the grades will keep getting inflated, normal climbers will be both inspired and annoyed that our hardest problem is 10 grades easier than the hardest ever climbed, and then I will go climbing and have a great time notwithstanding what grade I am on.


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By s.price
From PS,CO
Nov 20, 2011
 Morning Dew ,self portrait

grayhghost wrote:
Are you really telling Adam Ondra that he doesn't get the point of climbing?
Yes,i am. Being one of the best doesn't mean you truly understand the true rewards of climbing, nor is it an excuse to be a little bitch. His parents are probably more to blame for allowing this as he grew up and became a young man. I am not questioning his talent, just his actions and motivation. To quote the non wobbler tossing Great Alex Lowe, "The best climber in the world is the one having the most FUN!"


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