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What Girls think about climbing with dudes
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By ChefMattThaner
From Lakewood, co
Mar 23, 2014
ducking ropes at Copper

So my girlfriend got this sent to her a couple days ago and then I saw Prana post it up on Facebook and I finally read it.

touchstoneclimbing.com/news/16-climbing-news/713-girl-climbi>>>

I think it makes some interesting points but I also think it shows a fairly biased view(a Woman's'). I have definitely seen some of this out at the crag but then again some of it seems justified. The fact that these girls are mad guys make assumptions that they don't want to lead or don't own their own gear. While this is absolutely not true for all women, from my experience not as many women like to lead as much as men, and most women don't own a lot of their own gear beyond shoes harness and rope maybe.(I know this is not true for all ladies so please spare me the pics of your bad ass racks if this does not apply to you)

I also feel like women wearing booty shorts and yoga pants have no room to complain when guys are a little more forthcoming to spot them or simply cop a stare now and then. Plenty of men climb just fine in baggy pants and t-shirts, don't tell me it's performance related.

That being said I agree that men for the most part do a terrible job of being ambassadors of our sport to women and usually do a good job of making ourselves look likes jerks. This, however, is not unique to climbing so I don't understand why it comes as such a surprise to women climbers.


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By Matthew Blevin
From Keene Valley, NY
Mar 23, 2014

"This guy was spotting me on Acid Wash, a really low climb in the Happy boulders. I really didn't want a spot because it's so low and I had enough pads, and he wasn't spotting any of his guy friends."

"I was climbing a boulder problem in the local climbing gym and about four guys were watching me climb, but none of them pulled the mats underneath me. I fell and landed on the floor, which is cement."

so..."Read my mind because I'm going to remain mute, so no one has any idea whether I want/need help or not. Whichever you choose, you will be wrong."


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By Ryan Nevius
From The Range of Light
Mar 23, 2014
Mt. Agassiz

Matthew Blevin wrote:
"I was climbing a boulder problem in the local climbing gym and about four guys were watching me climb, but none of them pulled the mats underneath me. I fell and landed on the floor, which is cement."


This was one of the least effective accounts. Whether you're male or female, why not pull a mat under your own climb before you set off over a concrete floor?


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By SinRopa
From parts unknown
Mar 23, 2014

"There was no conversation about who would lead what pitch, he just assumed I didn't want to lead at all."
---A conversation takes 2 people. If whoever I'm climbing with (guy or girl) doesn't speak up, I'll assume they don't want to lead. You wanna lead? Say so.

"I don't think I'll want to climb with boys when I get older because I usually don't like people who show their nipples in public."
---Have fun never going to a beach then.

"I climbed with a boy once and he got mad because he couldn't get to the top."
---I climbed with a girl once and she got mad because she couldn't get to the top. I didn't take it personally or take it as an affront to my gender. I just figured she was bummed she peeled off the wall.


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By Matthew Blevin
From Keene Valley, NY
Mar 23, 2014

"After I sent my project, he said that it was probably easier for me than him because I weigh less."

From now on I'll say something like, "Wow, I'm incredibly impressed that you sent that, considering how much you weigh..."


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By Ryan Nevius
From The Range of Light
Mar 23, 2014
Mt. Agassiz

Matthew Blevin wrote:
"After I sent my project, he said that it was probably easier for me than him because I weigh less." From now on I'll say something like, "Wow, I'm incredibly impressed that you sent that, considering how much you weigh..."


You're missing the point.


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By ChefMattThaner
From Lakewood, co
Mar 23, 2014
ducking ropes at Copper

Matthew Blevin wrote:
"After I sent my project, he said that it was probably easier for me than him because I weigh less." From now on I'll say something like, "Wow, I'm incredibly impressed that you sent that, considering how much you weigh..."


Yes... Please, Yes.


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By Stich
From Colorado Springs, Colorado
Mar 23, 2014
Coffee after freezing our asses off near James Peak.

"When I said that I wanted to onsight a route he started racking the quick draws on to his harness and said that putting up the draws was the only was he could control the situation of me leading."

I don't know, it sounds like she has been climbing with a lot of douche canoes. Maybe this is a Smith Rock/Buttermilks thing? :-D

Well, hopefully these guys read her blog and get a clue.


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By Buff Johnson
Mar 23, 2014
smiley face

As long we can read minds, we'll be alright.

simple


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By Matthew Blevin
From Keene Valley, NY
Mar 23, 2014

Ryan Nevius wrote:
You're missing the point.


No I get it, I just think that whoever said is whining over nothing. I get told all the time that such-and-such was easier for me because of my longer legs or stronger arms or whatever. I don't get offended, I take it for what it is: a mix of the truth and sour grapes.


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By slim
Administrator
Mar 23, 2014
tomato, tomotto, kill mike amato.

i thought the article was completely stupid. a bunch of girls complaining about both sides of the coin. thank god none of the girls i climb with are anything like this.


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By Stich
From Colorado Springs, Colorado
Mar 23, 2014
Coffee after freezing our asses off near James Peak.

OK, I'll agree that the mind reading observation sounds valid. I also get very annoyed with people that think it is my job to encourage them to push themselves harder. That's your job, whoever you are. It's my job to say, "A'ight!" The other problem I see is that many of the interactions are being explained de facto by male/female dynamics, where as it could just be the way these guys act towards everyone. Not saying that is the case, I don't know. It smarts a bit of chip-on-shoulder syndrome.

"A sincere thank you goes to all of the women who contributed their stories."

Wait, I didn't get it that this was more than one woman's story until reading that statement. No wonder it reads like a litany.


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By mission
Mar 23, 2014

Stich wrote:
"When I said that I wanted to onsight a route he started racking the quick draws on to his harness and said that putting up the draws was the only was he could control the situation of me leading." I don't know, it sounds like she has been climbing with a lot of douche canoes. Maybe this is a Smith Rock/Buttermilks thing? :-D Well, hopefully these guys read her blog and get a clue.


I would guess that this quote isn't the situation's full story here. My bet is that the girl in this situation happens to be a very inexperienced climber that the guy does not trust to lead safely and is trying to make it a little bit safer.

I found myself just dismissing almost the entire douchey category as wildly overeaching.


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By ChefMattThaner
From Lakewood, co
Mar 23, 2014
ducking ropes at Copper

I feel like there is a "What guys think about climbing with chicks" article coming


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By mark felber
From Wheat Ridge, CO
Mar 23, 2014

mission wrote:
I would guess that this quote isn't the situation's full story here. My bet is that the girl in this situation happens to be a very inexperienced climber that the guy does not trust to lead safely and is trying to make it a little bit safer. I found myself just dismissing almost the entire douchey category as wildly overeaching.


Another possibility is that the guy is just a control freak with a very insecure ego. Hence his wish to "control the situation".


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By SinRopa
From parts unknown
Mar 23, 2014

ChefMattThaner wrote:
I feel like there is a "What guys think about climbing with chicks" article coming


I hope not. It'd probably come off as petty as that first article did.


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By nicelegs
From Denver
Mar 23, 2014

As a guy who is with a girl who climbs harder than me, I guess I didn't get the point of this.

I know girls like to climb with other girls because boys are loud, spray, and fart (fart spray is different and shouldn't be encouraged for any gender).

I never thought to demean their accomplishments by coming up with some reason why a send wasn't a send. The strongest female climber I know, also my girlfriend, routinely tells me that certain routes are easier for her because of small hands. Of course she manages to outreach me and I'm a foot taller than her.

Ladies, if you're climbing with dudes that don't support your send, stop climbing with them. Accidentally steal something cool off their rack on your way out. Dudes, if you are demeaning the accomplishments of the ladies you climb with, you are a fucktard. The first step to recovery is admitting it, few men ever recover.


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By Ben Beckerich
From saint helens, oregon
Mar 23, 2014
About half way up the East Arete on Illumination Rock

I'm so glad I read the posts here instead of clicking on the link. Not worth the wear to my left mouse button, I can see.

You want "equality?" Open your mouth and spill forth rational verbal intercourse. You want to be treated like a guy but won't act like one. YEA that makes sense.

I will not take your gender into consideration in not taking your gender into consideration. Speak up or shut up. An article in a climbing zine doesn't even come close to counting.


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By Jon Zucco
From Denver, CO
Mar 23, 2014
yaak crack Red Rock Canyon, NV

There is no reason to get defensive about this article. There are a lot of dick heads out there -- just don't be one of them.

Oh, and the one about the boy getting mad because he didn't send. Pretty sure that was me. Sorry about that.


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By Tom-onator
From This Galaxy
Mar 23, 2014
Tom-onator

Comedian Steven Wright summed it up best with the phrase

"Women: can't live with 'em, can't shoot 'em."


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By Ryan Nevius
From The Range of Light
Mar 23, 2014
Mt. Agassiz

ChefMattThaner wrote:
I feel like there is a "What guys think about climbing with chicks" article coming


It already happened; but I won't link to it here.


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By Em Cos
From Boulder, CO
Mar 23, 2014

Let's put this back into perspective. She asked a bunch of women to recount their one most notable gender-related issue while climbing with men. Of course when you gather that all together you're going to get a long list of complaints. That shouldn't imply that douchey or presumptuous or unsupportive or demeaning male partners is the norm for women, or even the norm for these women, it just represents the worst-case scenarios of each of their experiences.

Also, for those of you who may not have read the article carefully (or at all) she specifically notes that there were women and girls as young as 5 sharing their stories, so while she didn't specify the source of each comment I'm guessing the ones that say "I don't think I want to climb with boys when I get older because..." or the one that referenced "boys" in the gym are from 5 year old girls, so ease up.

Jon nailed it when he said no need to get defensive. You're not a dick to women, are you? Then this article is not about you. But to go to the other extreme and pretend that this is all bullshit, that no man ever intentionally or unintentionally makes a woman climbing partner feel shitty, is being a bit obtuse.

We've never seen a guy say anything douchey about female climbing partners, right MP?

www.mountainproject.com/v/looking-for-climbing-partners/1087>>>


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By Ryan Watts
From Bishop, CA
Mar 24, 2014
Flatirons

"One time this guy I barely knew told me that if I was going to try this certain route that I should be very careful because it's sandbagged, has tricky pro, long runouts, and insecure feet. I did the route and yeah, it was hard, but none of what he said was true."

I like how that one is clearly gender related and has never, ever happened to a male climber. Ever.

"I was warming up in the gym and this guy started tickling me while I was climbing."

Alright I'll admit I was a bit over the line there...but other than the spraydown for the pink route that's pretty much all I got....


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By Anfarwal
From Denver, CO
Mar 24, 2014
Approach to Whitney

No female perspectives in this thread yet?

I thought this article was pretty biased. I've definitely experienced a few of the negative things she mentioned, but honestly, lot of these statements could have been made by men to other men (and what about overweight people or older people climbing?) And if this is the attitude that women have when climbing with men, then in some respects we're just as bad as the assholes she mentioned (or like that dude on www.mountainproject.com/v/looking-for-climbing-partners/1087>>>)

Most of my partners and my climbing mentors have been men. They taught me how to climb trad and how to climb hard. Most girls I know don't want to do a 3 hour approach to climb a 12 pitch alpine climb at altitude, but I can persuade a guy to do it (but even then, not many). When I climb with a guy, we play to our strengths and weaknesses. In the article, I couldn't see what was wrong with a guy pointing out that a girl's center of gravity was lower or she weighed less--so what?

I've been seeing more and more of these articles lately, and while they do point out an issue, they make all climbing women seem passive aggressive, whiny or kind of ignorant. I'm pretty sure just as many times as a guy is saying 'it's because you're a girl' girls are saying 'it's because you're a guy'
Those are my 2 cents. Sorry girls, I'm not a fan of this article.


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By Katiekorn
Mar 24, 2014
J-tree

I'm surprised to see anyone complaining about another person spotting them (male or female). Regardless of how easy vs. hard a problem was, I've always been grateful for a spot vs. what other people thought about "how hard I climb."


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By matt c.
Mar 24, 2014

i can relate really to most of these stories even though i have a penis. It is curious how an article about being gender sensitive could be fucking sexist...


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