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What do you want to see in a multi-pitch climbing pack?

Original Post
Tosch Roy · · Bend · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 45

First, full disclosure: My name is Tosch Roy, I'm 25, and after a rocky start on my way towards a mechanical engineering degree, I dropped out of school to start a business called Free Range Equipment (circa 2012). We design and manufacture sport-specific backpacks for light and fast adventure in the mountains and sew everything together in Bend, Oregon (not too far from Smith Rock so drop by if you swing through Bend!).

I want to know what features/characteristics turn your crank in a climbing pack for long multi-pitch routes. We are currently selling the Stud and would like to hear some thoughts and feedback on the product as well as ideas for a new model. ie. must have shoulder pad pockets, gear loops, big enough for a 30 rack of pabst, etc. Super curious to hear what y'all have in mind!

Alex Koeberle · · Seattle · Joined Sep 2012 · Points: 0

Gear loops on the hipbelt are rather nice.

For me it depends on size: small daypack I just want very stripped down, but with a hydro-sleeve and port for the hose. maybe a daisy chain for clipping, but pretty optional.

For multi-day fast and light alpine, I've always hoped some company would come up with a pack that has an actual, usable bivy pad as part of the frame system. Like the equivalent of a 3/4 ridgerest built into the pad (but removable)

frank bonnevie · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 87

a biggger hole for the hydration tube. gear loops on the hip belt. a strap on the top so you can put a rope over the top of the pack so it wont slide down. compression straps that are long to hold a rope on the outside. basically a ski touring pack.

climber pat · · Las Cruces NM · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 286

I am looking for a hydration pack with gear loops built into the shoulder straps. Similar to metoliusclimbing.com/big-wa… with a small waist strap for stability. The metolius gear sling's compartment is way to small to be useful for anything. I want a bladder for 2 liters of water, room for a jacket (light shell or puffy), and some food (a few bars), and a headlamp.

I would also prefer a single/double zippered compartment design without any netting or exterior unzipped pockets to get caught on the rock. A haul loop system is also needed.

Make the pack as light as possible so that I am willing to actually carry it to the base of the climb and use it on the climb.

Ryan Palo · · Bend, oregon · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 605

Having played with your pack in person, I must say I really like it. The roll top style is great for big approaches where im going to walk in wearing shorts & T. So the pack will contain: Jaket, pants, long sleeve, rack or rope, food, water bottle, shoes and have room for no more. Keeps the bag small for the actual climbing. Id like to be able to get the bag small/for it to have side compression straps. Those straps are also great for carrying a coiled rope. Would be also nice to have materials extend from the roll top. More room for the hike, less bag. Keep it up with the material. Bomber.

Another nice to have is two secure/reinforced handles. Great to dangle a bag off an anchor or off a sling clipped to my belay loop when going up a chimney.

Tosch Roy · · Bend · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 45

@AlexandreK & frank bonnevie: When you are wearing a harness with gear loops and a pack with gear loops on the waist belt, do you use both sets of them? Or one or the other?

@climber pat: I hear ya on the size of the metolius big wall sling. There's room for either a bladder or a windbreaker and not a whole lot more. A 10L compartment would be money.

Love the feedback so far. Keep it coming.

Muscrat · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 3,625
Tosch Roy wrote: I want to know what features/characteristics you would like to see in a climbing pack for long multi-pitch routes.... Super curious to hear what y'all have in mind!
A babe, carrying all the gear, a sixer, and never mind what i have in mind
HA!
Tosch Roy · · Bend · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 45

@Ryan Palo: Heck ya, where were you using it? Got any pictures? What do you mean by "have more materials extend from the roll top? You thinking like an extra extension collar or just a longer roll top?

@Muscrat: mulletpassions.com/

Muscrat · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 3,625

^^I'm in LOVE!^^

Ryan Palo · · Bend, oregon · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 605
Tosch Roy wrote:@Ryan Palo: Heck ya, where were you using it? Got any pictures? What do you mean by "have more materials extend from the roll top? You thinking like an extra extension collar or just a longer roll top? @Muscrat: mulletpassions.com/
I wish! just cant justify buying another bag. As soon as some bear, goat, or marmot eats my current 18l, Im buying one. I was just playing with one of the ones at Mountain Supply.

Yes, to the extra extension collar. I dont think you'd be in a situation where you'd have a fully loaded pack. Who knows. Could use the thing as a mini haul bag if you added reinforced loops on the top.
thecmacattack · · Denver, Colorado · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 30

maybe a loop to hold your rope-backpack in place. i usually have the rope over the top of my smaller bag but it can shift around when scrambling which is kind of annoying. just some way to directly attack it to the bag so it doesnt shift so much.

Alex Koeberle · · Seattle · Joined Sep 2012 · Points: 0

@Tosch:

If I have both a harness and pack with gear loops, I'm usually using the gear loops on the pack if I'm trying to move fast with a partner and clean a pitch. USually those gear loops are more accessible for cleaning/swapping gear over to a partner. Also big bonus in alpine with you throw a layer on that starts covering your harness.

Jon Sullivan · · Boulder, CO · Joined Nov 2014 · Points: 0

I am a firm believer that KISS is always the way to go ( keep it simple stupid ). I have burned through many packs and lately have settled on four-five packs. I use a BD Bullet or BD 24 Axis for multi pitch rock, BD Speed 30 for alpine and a Stubby haul bag for general rock play. I have a separate pack for ski days ( avi lung ). I choose all of these bags because there is no unneeded strap nonsense on any of them, no bottle holders on any of them and they all except the Bullet have a rope carry over the top which is beyond awesome time and time again. Stronger sternum straps ( get rid of the stretchy nonsense so many of them have, I want it tight, not flexible. I can adjust myself ) and well padded shoulders without being too bulky are things that stand out to me. Alpine pursuits are when I find the hip belt gear loops helpful but thats about it. BD used to make a pack called the Predator ( i have two of them still ) and I always loved it. High denier count, ski carry, tool carry, rope carry, external crampon carry and a side access zipper on the 40+L options. This is still one of the best packs I ever owned because it was so multi functional. However, it was usually too "heavy" and bulky to consider taking up a multi pitch. I have a lot of opinions regarding soft goods and their construction. I spend many days in the mountains in many disciplines and would be happy to offer a more in depth approach to what I personally see as a successful multi pitch pack.

Best of luck. I checked out your website and your products are at the very least, pretty attractive looking. Im sure they're pretty bomber too but I have had zero experience with them. Ive actually never even heard the brand before. Looks like you've done well thus far!

Eric and Lucie · · Boulder, CO · Joined Oct 2004 · Points: 140

elasticized mesh pockets on both sides to hold food items for quick snacks without having to open the main pack.

Short'ish torso length and unintrusive hip-belt to avoid interfering with harness (I want my pack's hip-belt to sit above my harness).

Multiple torso lengths so for once all of us can find one that fits without overlapping the harness waist belt.

Lightweight and super-packable so it's easy to carry to a high camp inside of a larger backpack.

Somewhat tear resistant fabric on surfaces exposed to the rock (e.g. chimneying), though I realize this must be balanced with weight.

Very few other "features". KISS. Maybe a strap or two on the outside to hold jackets, etc during approach hikes.

Fun colors (no black/gray please!).

Larry · · SoAZ · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 50
Eric and Lucie wrote:elasticized mesh pockets on both sides.
Eric and Lucie wrote:Somewhat tear resistant fabric on surfaces exposed to the rock (e.g. chimneying)
Ummm...
Jake Parker · · Bozeman, MT · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 0

Having used the stud for two or three years now I can say it does everything I thought it was supposed to do. The thing only has one strap and it get used. On approaches I normally have my rope, helmet, and sometimes an extra layer all clipped in. It does also have a strong handle that I use to clip it into the anchor. The pack is big enough to carry a double rack, climbing shoes, harness, water, food and nothing else. This is perfect if it is your backpack for the day and your partner has one as well but not quite big enough if it is your party's only pack. This summer we used the stud as a party of two on a longer route, 9ish pitches of demanding enough climbing that we didn't want to lead with the pack on. Really the only sacrifice we made was hiking with our harnesses on and clipping shoes to them, everything else went in the stud all day. The only comment I heard about the pack all day was that it should have some compression straps on the side for clipping your jacket to and making it smaller when climbing. I think that is unnecessary. Who the hell wants their only sweater dangling off the their backpack when you are a thousand feet up. Also good luck bringing so little stuff on a big climb that you can even compress the thing, it is small enough as it is. The hip belt is great. The pack is too small to justify a hip belt large enough to put a loop on. Also since the length is short enough you can really cinch down all the straps, hip, sternum (I am with Jon Sullivan no elastic), and shoulders. This gets the pack high enough above your waist that there is no interference with the harness and therefore no need for extra loops. Oh and also the current hydration bladder interface is great. Sometimes on long easy pitches I find myself snagging a drink on lead which is is a feature I never knew I would like or use.

On a different note it would be hard to use the stud on some route where you need an axe for the approach, no way to strap it on really. Maybe their is another Free Range pack that fits that bill.

Sorry for the long winded response Tosch. Tosch's packs are as bomber as they look and they really do it all....so get one.

Tosch Roy · · Bend · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 45
Ryan Palo wrote:Yes, to the extra extension collar. I dont think you'd be in a situation where you'd have a fully loaded pack. Who knows. Could use the thing as a mini haul bag if you added reinforced loops on the top.
I'm thinking a slightly shorter draw closure (shorter then the current one) with a longer extension collar using lighter fabric (extends 8" or so beyond the short one) would be pretty clutch. Also, as of a couple weeks ago, the Stud ships with 2 haul loops, one front, one back.

I'll make sure to set my dog on your pack next time I see it laying around Smith.

AlexandreK wrote:If I have both a harness and pack with gear loops, I'm usually using the gear loops on the pack if I'm trying to move fast with a partner and clean a pitch. USually those gear loops are more accessible for cleaning/swapping gear over to a partner. Also big bonus in alpine with you throw a layer on that starts covering your harness.
Good info. Right now, the waist belt is 1" webbing that's removable (I've never wanted more for something this size). Not exactly an ideal platform for gear loops but the first thing that comes to mind is a modular gear loop assembly that slides onto the webbing. I have reservations on modular components though. If done right, they're great but it seems they usually just add a lot clutter.

@Jon Sullivan: Lots of good gems in there. Did you like the side zipper in the Predator? I prototyped a 20L ski pack with a side zipper and I hardly ever use it. I can see them being more useful the bigger the pack gets. You might see an email from me in the next design phase.

Jake Parker wrote:This summer we used the stud as a party of two on a longer route, 9ish pitches of demanding enough climbing that we didn't want to lead with the pack on.
Was that on Montana Centennial route? You better have taken some pictures...

Jake Parker wrote:Sometimes on long easy pitches I find myself snagging a drink on lead which is is a feature I never knew I would like or use.
Yeah, I get the nervous mid-lead cotton-mouth as well.
christoph benells · · tahoma · Joined Nov 2014 · Points: 306
What I want to see in a multi pitch climbing pack

a couple of beers for the top

a joint

leftover pizza

10 feet of tat

a couple of caribeneers
Nick Drake · · Kent, WA · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 651

If you aren't doing a carryover with bivy gear then there isn't enough weight to need padding on the hip belt, so don't worry about gear loops. I'd much rather use the molded gear loops on my harness then fabric ones off my hip belt personally. Aside from molded loops being easier to use the hip belt padding always gets in the way of a harness anyway, make it high enough to clear and you won't be putting weight on your pelvis anyway.

You current pack looks great for one day longer climb, I would add something to carry pointy bits. Before someone complains, yes some of us DO climb in the alpine and actually need to bring those things :)
Check out how BD did the speed tool carries, that's been my favorite design. One slot of fabric below for the pick, a single strap clip to secure it (clipped under the fabric slot when not in use). Then velcro straps that can be removed in seconds for the handle. Leave that upper velcro looser and you can reach back one handed to unclip and retrieve your axe. The whole back is still very clean when the carry isn't being used, it's easy, and doesn't add much weight.
Just four loops the right width for voile ski straps can take care of crampons, again light and clean when not in use.

The other reason I say this is because honestly it's hard to beat the disposable "are you a member" pack for regular old multi-pitch, they are so cheap that even if you kill one a season it's no big deal. Where that pack really comes short though is that the daisy on the back is downright scary, I wouldn't trust it with anything.

Are you looking at making a larger pack in the 35-40 range for overnights?

JPVallone · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2004 · Points: 195

Beer, and maybe even a place to keep that beer cold

rgold · · Poughkeepsie, NY · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 526

Some things suggested would actually be a deal-breaker for me, e.g. gear loops on the waist belt. Maybe on an alpine pack that the climber basically never takes off, but not on a rock-climbing pack please!

Here's what I'd like to see. For multipitch rock I like to have one pack for the party carried by the second. I don't expect the pack to be hauled, but at times it might be suspended from the harness for things like chimneying. So that's where I'm coming from.

  • Main innovation: A pair of gusseted vertical zippers to allow the pack to open nice and wide when hung from the anchor but still not dump contents. To make this work, you might need a roll-top closure like the old Arcteryx Miuras.
  • Smooth exterior. Nothing (like pockets) sticking out that will hang up. Please no mesh bottle-holders that will catch and tear anyway, especially on the approach if there is any bushwacking.
  • Exception to smoothness: Compression straps. I like the pack snug to the back regardless of load. Perhaps removable compression straps as on Cilogear and the old Arcteryx Miura packs would be ideal.
  • Pockets: it is nice to have a large pocket for guidebook, snacks, and headlamp. I think the way to do this is to have the pocket extend out on the inside of the pack and be accessible via a zipper on the outside; this way the smooth exterior is preserved. The zipper should be horizontal or diagonal, not vertical, which dumps stuff when the pack is hanging from an anchor. An additional inside pocket is useful, sewn to the top hem but otherwise not anchored down so it can be flipped above the pack contents or stuffed behind them.
  • I'd like to have a running vest suspension (minus the water bottle and energy gel pockets of course) rather than the conventional shoulder straps and waist belt.
  • Short height so that rear harness loops and chalk bag are accessible with the pack on.
  • Rope-carrying strap on top (not on the bottom as on the Petzl Bug).
  • Solid "haul" loop for hanging the pack on anchors and suspending from the harness in chimneys.
  • Hydration pack pocket and ports and a really good way to keep the drinking tube out of the way when climbing. (The main use of the drinking tube will be for the belayer to have hands-free sips from the pack while it is hanging from the anchor.)
  • 18L capacity seems about right.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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