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What do you do when your sheath has shredded from the core
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By David Appelhans
From Lafayette
Dec 27, 2011
Imaginate

This video made me think of this (3:50)


www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1ovr55k6evE

If your sheath becomes totally shredded from the core for a section, what is the best way to deal with the rappel from the route?

I remember reading about one accident where I think the sheath slipped off the core when someone was using aiders or tiblocs. I'd worry that if it is close to the end of the rope just rappeling over it may lead to the sheath slipping off the rest of the core, taking you with it. One option would be to strip the sheath of the rest of the core on the short end and then rap down on only the core. Your thoughts?


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By Josh Allred
From Salt Lake City, UT
Dec 27, 2011
P3 on Nutcracker.

I would prob make a HUGE alpine butterfly knot where it is cut up and have a prussik ready so that I can pass the knott. If its a double strand rappel I would use a biner block rap on the side that is not cut up and pull the other line.


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By David Appelhans
From Lafayette
Dec 28, 2011
Imaginate

Thanks, I totally had forgotten about that. I don't use the alpine butterfly very often so I don't remember it well, but I think a figure eight or overhand on a bite would also work to isolate the shredded part of the rope.


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By John Wilder
From Las Vegas, NV
Dec 28, 2011

yup, alpine butterfly. i had to do this a few years back when my ropes got multiple core shots from a massive rock fall. we fixed one rope to get us o the bottom of the 200' pitch (as both our ropes had suffered at least 6 core shots and one had been cut in half), then used the remains of the other rope to make a couple small raps down a nasty gully nearby.


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By Wayne
From Superior, CO
Dec 28, 2011

David Appelhans wrote:
Thanks, I totally had forgotten about that. I don't use the alpine butterfly very often so I don't remember it well, but I think a figure eight or overhand on a bite would also work to isolate the shredded part of the rope.


I would say NOT a figure eight, that rolls when loaded in that way. The same reason not to use it to tie 2 ropes for a rappel would apply. I'd say learn the hand wrap method of tying a alpine butterfly as I think it is the easiest to remember when used infrequently or just use an overhand. Both should be ok, although you might get a 'best' argument for the alpine butterfly.


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By the Ascender
From . . . CO
Dec 28, 2011
My shadow is forcing me into the overhanging crux.

I'd throw in a quick overhand, and clip a single biner in the loop (to keep it from possible "backing out").
Getting a little crazy, but: if it was a significant run, or the sheath had slipped a bit, I'd knot the top and bottom ends of the injury, clip a biner at both, and "tie" it togetehr with some cord. This would keep it from running/sliding further, and if there was a chnace of abrasion (and a cut rope) it would keep you from a ground fall.


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By -sp
From East-Coast
Feb 13, 2012
Buenos Dias!

Wayne wrote:
I would say NOT a figure eight, that rolls when loaded in that way. The same reason not to use it to tie 2 ropes for a rappel would apply. I'd say learn the hand wrap method of tying a alpine butterfly as I think it is the easiest to remember when used infrequently or just use an overhand. Both should be ok, although you might get a 'best' argument for the alpine butterfly.



Alpine Butterfly


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By NickinCO
From colorado
Feb 13, 2012
after the hard stuff, into cruiser hands.

alpine butterfly


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By Crag Dweller
From New York, NY
Feb 13, 2012
My navigator keeps me from getting lost

John Wilder wrote:
yup, alpine butterfly. i had to do this a few years back when my ropes got multiple core shots from a massive rock fall. we fixed one rope to get us o the bottom of the 200' pitch (as both our ropes had suffered at least 6 core shots and one had been cut in half), then used the remains of the other rope to make a couple small raps down a nasty gully nearby.


jesus, dude, talk about the climbing environment being harsh on gear! glad (and, amazed) to hear that your rope was the only thing that had to retire from climbing.


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By Ben Beckerich
From saint helens, oregon
Feb 19, 2012
About half way up the East Arete on Illumination Rock

Wayne wrote:
I would say NOT a figure eight, that rolls when loaded in that way. The same reason not to use it to tie 2 ropes for a rappel would apply. I'd say learn the hand wrap method of tying a alpine butterfly as I think it is the easiest to remember when used infrequently or just use an overhand. Both should be ok, although you might get a 'best' argument for the alpine butterfly.


I actually use this knot pretty frequently, and I can't ever remember the hand wrap method to save my life.

Just me, though.


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By Stich
From Colorado Springs, Colorado
Feb 19, 2012
Coffee after freezing our asses off near James Peak.

No, if your rope got the sheath separated from the core and you are just rappelling, don't tie any knots in there making a complete cluster fuck of the rappels. Just continue rappelling as you would normally. The core fibers are doing the workload in your rope, not the sheath. The sheath protects the core fibers and keeps them clean.

When you get down, cut the bad part of the rope out and use it for what you will depending on the length left.


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By Crag Dweller
From New York, NY
Feb 20, 2012
My navigator keeps me from getting lost

Stich wrote:
No, if your rope got the sheath separated from the core and you are just rappelling, don't tie any knots in there making a complete cluster fuck of the rappels. Just continue rappelling as you would normally. The core fibers are doing the workload in your rope, not the sheath. The sheath protects the core fibers and keeps them clean. When you get down, cut the bad part of the rope out and use it for what you will depending on the length left.


I'm having a hard time believing that's the best way to handle the situation. First, it seems as though you'd run into problems when you come to the end of the exposed core and the leading edge of the sheath. I imagine it being pretty hard to get the edge of the sheath to pass easily through the belay device. You'd risk pushing the sheath down even further. And, the thought of heating up the exposed core as you rappel along it just sounds bad.

But, I don't know. I've sheathed a rope before (scared the shit out of me), but I've never had to rappel over an exposed core. Have you tried this, Stich?


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By David Appelhans
From Lafayette
Feb 20, 2012
Imaginate

Stich wrote:
No, if your rope got the sheath separated from the core and you are just rappelling, don't tie any knots in there making a complete cluster fuck of the rappels. Just continue rappelling as you would normally. The core fibers are doing the workload in your rope, not the sheath. The sheath protects the core fibers and keeps them clean. When you get down, cut the bad part of the rope out and use it for what you will depending on the length left.


I agree the strength of the rope is in the core. I'd carefully rap down on just a core without to much hesitation. That isn't really the issue.

The problem is that the sheath could slip down the core. It is certainly going to slide down and bunch up if you try to rappel directly over it. Tying an alpine butterfly or overhand on a bight is a great way to re-secure the sheath's position relative to the core, thank you to those that reminded me of this obvious solution.


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By Stich
From Colorado Springs, Colorado
Feb 20, 2012
Coffee after freezing our asses off near James Peak.

Crag Dweller wrote:
I've sheathed a rope before (scared the shit out of me), but I've never had to rappel over an exposed core. Have you tried this, Stich?


No, but I would. Passing a knot is a complete pain in the ass unless you have a rope ascending system set up and ready to go. I mainly wouldn't do that to my partner, especially if they were injured. I'm sure the bad spot in the rope would pass through a Munter hitch if not an ATC.

And come on, you would be worried about heating up the core as you passed it? Just go slow and dissipate the heat evenly.


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