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By Jay Knower
Administrator
From Campton, NH
Oct 28, 2009
Technosurfing, Rumney. Photo by Seth Hamel.
I am curious to hear which (if any) vitamins and supplements sport climbers are using these days. What do you take and has it helped your performance?

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By Monomaniac
Administrator
From Morrison, CO
Oct 28, 2009
Insurrection, 5.14c.  Photo Adam Sanders.
Good question.

I take Glucosamine/Chondroiton with MSM. At various times I've also taken multi-vitamins, Vitamin C, Vitamin E, Iron & Zinc, but now just the Glucosamine, etc.

I don't think its helped my performance, but it may have reduced the frequency/intensity of injuries. There is debate over the effectivess of Glucosamine, etc, but there is no debate that placebos work.

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By Mark Roth
From Boulder
Oct 28, 2009
not climbing
18 minutes and no mention of beer. oops

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By Evan S
From Erie, CO
Oct 28, 2009
Me, of course
Oh boy, don't get me started. I'll just keep it simple, Glucosamine and MSM are great, especially if you're not an 18 year old little monkey anymore. L-Glutamine can give your muscles more endurance, and L-Ornithine helps with your nitric acid cycle and can reduce "pump." Creatine in small doses can also help, I'm sure you've all heard lots of pro's and con's for it, but it simply acts as a phosphate donor, turning ADP (Adenine Di-Phosphate) back into ATP (Tri), which is what your muscles run on. B vitamins and Licorice Root are great for your adrenals, which needless to say get spanked while climbing.

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By Jay Knower
Administrator
From Campton, NH
Oct 28, 2009
Technosurfing, Rumney. Photo by Seth Hamel.
Yeah, I have begun taking vitamins. Mostly I take a multi vitamin, and a B12 supplement. I also take calcium because I hate milk.

Am I on the right track for healthy climbing? Could I be doing more to boost performance?

I know I should probably take Glucosamine/Chondroiton, but it's pretty pricy. Should I be thinking of adding anything else?

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By Jay Knower
Administrator
From Campton, NH
Oct 28, 2009
Technosurfing, Rumney. Photo by Seth Hamel.
EVS wrote:
B vitamins and Licorice Root are great for your adrenals, which needless to say get spanked while climbing.


What do you mean that the adrenals get spanked while climbing?

I'm interested in the creatine angle. Anyone else use it?

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By Evan S
From Erie, CO
Oct 28, 2009
Me, of course
Take more Magnesium, 400mg 3X a day (or something close). Most people don't really need to supplement with Calcium, it's the Mg they're desperately deficient in. Zinc for men as well, 50mg a day. Chromium can be helpful, and is dirt cheap.

You use a lot of adrenalin hanging onto a cliff for dear life, that's what I mean by spanking your adrenals. Even if you're not mentally scared, your body and instincts automatically react as if you're in a life and death situation, no way around it.

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By Monomaniac
Administrator
From Morrison, CO
Oct 28, 2009
Insurrection, 5.14c.  Photo Adam Sanders.
I'm not a big fan of milk either, mostly because it doesn't keep very long, and I can't drink it fast enough to keep it from going sour(chocolate milk is a different story, but I only have it around when I'm hangboarding).

Anyway, I drink orange juice with "as much calcium & vitamin D as milk" according to the packaging.

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By Jay Knower
Administrator
From Campton, NH
Oct 28, 2009
Technosurfing, Rumney. Photo by Seth Hamel.
EVS wrote:
Take more Magnesium, 400mg 3X a day (or something close). Most people don't really need to supplement with Calcium, it's the Mg they're desperately deficient in. Zinc for men as well, 50mg a day. Chromium can be helpful, and is dirt cheap. You use a lot of adrenalin hanging onto a cliff for dear life, that's what I mean by spanking your adrenals. Even if you're not mentally scared, your body and instincts automatically react as if you're in a life and death situation, no way around it.


Thanks for the explanation. I'll definitely get the Magnesium, Zinc, and Chromium. My wife makes me take the calcium, because she thinks my previous stress fractures from running were because of a lack of calcium. Should I not take it?

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By Jay Knower
Administrator
From Campton, NH
Oct 28, 2009
Technosurfing, Rumney. Photo by Seth Hamel.
Monomaniac wrote:
Anyway, I drink orange juice with "as much calcium & vitamin D as milk" according to the packaging.


Orange juice has too many carbs for me.

You would think I like milk, since I was born and raised in Wisconsin. I just don't.

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By Evan S
From Erie, CO
Oct 28, 2009
Me, of course
Jay Knower wrote:
Thanks for the explanation. I'll definitely get the Magnesium, Zinc, and Chromium. My wife makes me take the calcium, because she thinks my previous stress fractures from running were because of a lack of calcium. Should I not take it?


You can take some calcium, but realistically you get plenty from your diet (most likely). 1 Cup of cooked spinach has 70% as much calcium as a cup of milk, dairy is not the only source, what do you think people did for all of history until we started eating dairy products a few thousand years ago. I eat absolutely no dairy, not a speck, and had to stop taking even low amounts of supplemental calcium because I get so much in my diet it was starting to form deposits in my lungs. The issue is that Ca and Mg compete for absorption channels, and have a strong co-dependent role in your body. The ideal ratio is 2:1 Ca to Mg in your tissue, most people are WAY off that because they get so much Ca and so little Mg in their diet. If you take Ca pills, just make sure you're taking a much higher amount of Mg, and you'll be fine.

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By Jay Knower
Administrator
From Campton, NH
Oct 28, 2009
Technosurfing, Rumney. Photo by Seth Hamel.
What abut Creatine? Anyone use it?

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By Kayte Knower
Oct 28, 2009
paralysis by analysis
Jay Knower wrote:
My wife makes me take the calcium, because she thinks my previous stress fractures from running were because of a lack of calcium. Should I not take it?


Um. I'd say you got the stress fracture from taking 800 mg of vitamin-I before AND after each run, and because you refuse to do healthy stretching or massage anything rejuvenating like that.

I was joking about the milk, babe.

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By England
From ?
Oct 28, 2009
Alpine toothpick.
Water, water, and some more water!!! A quality multi vitamin. Glucosamine + Chondroitin, Fish oil with Omega-3 EPA/DHA. Finally the big one, Bragg organic raw unfiltered apple cider vinegar. Two teaspoons mixed with water twice a day. My joint pain is GONE!!!! I'm not really a sport climber, so maybe this is all irrelevant.

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By KevinCO
From Loveland, CO
Oct 28, 2009
-Bromelain instead of Vit I...very effective anti-inflammatory if taken on an empty stomach with no side effects.

-Fish oil

-Whey protein (New Zealand source)

-Microcrystalline calcium complex such as Jarrow Bone Up

-Multi-vitamin

-Collagen Type 1 & 3(taken on an empty stomach with bromelain & Vit C for strains, injuries, and recovering from workouts)

-Vit C

-CMO (Jarrow True CMO) if my joints are bothering me...works better that glucosomine, but can be taken with it.

-Eliminate free radical sources and max out antioxidant sources. Add the super sources such as acai, goji, blueberries, coca powder, etc. Print out a chart off line of ORAC (oxygen radical absorbance capacity)values to refer to. oracvalues.com/sort/orac-value

-Spring water...if you have access to Eldorado Spring Water, you are blessed!

-Foods high in fiber

-Rest


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By EMT
Oct 28, 2009
me bouldering in MT
Jay Knower wrote:
What abut Creatine? Anyone use it?

bad bad bad.

well if it makes you climb harder???

Extra levels of creatine do not make for a happy body long term...

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By England
From ?
Oct 28, 2009
Alpine toothpick.
EMT wrote:
bad bad bad. well if it makes you climb harder??? Extra levels of creatine do not make for a happy body long term...

+1
It makes you retain water as well. Not good for you sporties concerned about the extra pounds.

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By Evan S
From Erie, CO
Oct 28, 2009
Me, of course
I wouldn't stress out about taking SMALL doses of creatine (like I said in my earlier post). It's not some magical chemical, it is found in all meats, you get a healthy dose from a can of tuna (on a side note 100+ grams of protein a day will greatly increase your athletic performance), but too much in extracted form IS way bad. Kidney problems, water retention, and heinous gas, like no one can stand to be around you gas. There are some higher quality forms that are alkali and don't break into creatinine as quickly, and some forms bonded to carnitine that are fine to take in moderation, and only before a workout or climbing session when you can actually utilize them. As far as other the other advice thrown out, all good. Ibuprofen is poison, use sparingly and only in cases of acute injury. Fish oil and vitamin D are critical, apple cider vinegar IS magical, try mixing it four parts vinegar to one part milk of magnesia. The vinegar breaks the chemical bonds and turns the magnesia into pure ionic magnesium. I wouldn't pay a whole lot of attention to claimed ORAC ratings, that's what happens in a test tube, not in a human body. It does so happen that the fruits with the highest anthrocyanonin and antioxidant counts have the higheset ORAC's, but you don't need numbers to tell you that. And I wanted to keep it simple, I can't resist talking about this stuff.

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By Brian Adzima
From the Paris of Appalachia
Oct 28, 2009
somewhere in WV
Lot's and lots of ferrous sulfate (750mg/day), but that's another story.

Anybody got advice for dealing with 20-40mg of prednisone a day? I have been using it off and on for about 5 years now, and don't see any chance of getting of it soon.

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By Aerili
From Salt Lake City, UT
Oct 29, 2009
The West Desert...it's not just for climbing, suckers! <br /> <br />Photo by Samantha
EVS wrote:
Take more Magnesium, 400mg 3X a day (or something close). Most people don't really need to supplement with Calcium, it's the Mg they're desperately deficient in.


Magnesium deficiency is rare in people, EVS.

You sure have made a bunch of claims (including ones I know not to be backed up by much overwhelming evidence, like L-glutamine) with little to credit where you're getting it all....Not to mention statements like "such-and-such are great for your adrenals" sounds about as scientifically supported as the moon making you crazy.

To the OP: the supplement industry is one of the biggest rackets in the country, so caveat emptor, aye. Unfortunately, there's also not a lot of conclusive evidence on most of the supplements cited by others on here for this or that, due in no small part to the fact that supplements have virtually no standardization or regulation to begin with. Even if a study(ies) used one certain standardized preparation and found some definitive (positive) result, there are few ways to know if what you buy on the shelf is remotely the same thing. :(

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By Evan1984
Oct 29, 2009
The only suplements I take are for poor circulation in my hands and toes. I start taking them when it gets cold or else I can't climb at all.

I take Circuplex(mainly B vitamins and niacin) and Ginko. They seem to work well.

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By Jay Knower
Administrator
From Campton, NH
Oct 29, 2009
Technosurfing, Rumney. Photo by Seth Hamel.
Aerili wrote:
Magnesium deficiency is rare in people, EVS. You sure have made a bunch of claims (including ones I know not to be backed up by much overwhelming evidence, like L-glutamine) with little to credit where you're getting it all....Not to mention statements like "such-and-such are great for your adrenals" sounds about as scientifically supported as the moon making you crazy. To the OP: the supplement industry is one of the biggest rackets in the country, so caveat emptor, aye. Unfortunately, there's also not a lot of conclusive evidence on most of the supplements cited by others on here for this or that, due in no small part to the fact that supplements have virtually no standardization or regulation to begin with. Even if a study(ies) used one certain standardized preparation and found some definitive (positive) result, there are few ways to know if what you buy on the shelf is remotely the same thing. :(


Aerili, what do you take? I'm assuming nothing. From what I gathered from what has been said above, taking these things can't hurt you. Ok, maybe a lot of creatine, and ibuprofen will hurt you, but the other stuff seems pretty benign. Plus there's the placebo effect that Mono mentioned above. That's got to be worth something.

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By Shawn Mitchell
From Broomfield
Oct 29, 2009
Splitter Jams on the Israel/Palestine Security Wall.
Kayte Knower wrote:
Um. I'd say you got the stress fracture from taking 800 mg of vitamin-I before AND after each run, and because you refuse to do healthy stretching or massage anything rejuvenating like that. I was joking about the milk, babe.

Ha! Mountain Project...bringing people together, even people that live together! :)

Yah, Jay, it's puzzling to chart a course with all the buzz and debunking that goes on!

Aerili, you didn't specifically criticize glucosamine and MSM. The mass hysteria for them seems pretty universal, and I think I remember reading about substantiating studies(?)

OK, my question drives some drift, but it's related: Water, water, water, as England put it. The short version is that I have a water habit that seems to mess me up for real adventure. I drink lots. After even a light workout, I can easily chug a quart in one quaff. Then down another over a few minutes. I have a quart on my desk at work, and go through it frequently. Hydration baby!

But then...on a long climb, SOS!! I feel totally parched because I can't drink a quart a pitch. Tackling the Diamond with just 1.5 liters felt woefully dry and underarmed, because I've programmed my body to consume so much water.

Does anyone else have this issue? Is there any solution?

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By Kayte Knower
Oct 29, 2009
paralysis by analysis
Shawn Mitchell wrote:
The short version is that I have a water habit that seems to mess me up for real adventure. I drink lots...But then...on a long climb, SOS!! I feel totally parched because I can't drink a quart a pitch...Does anyone else have this issue? Is there any solution?


ABSOLUTELY. When I started climbing I listened to the advice of everyone under the sun and took all of it too far. One guy I climbed with said that water was essential for combating tendonitis, and I immediately started drinking as much water as I could hold.

At this point, I have a significant water problem. My body is used to having constant water, and (the flip side) being able to pee as often as necessary. Water is a major issue for me. I've always wanted to try a wall, but the first thing any of my partners say when I mention it is, "no way. we'll never be able to carry enough water for you!!!"

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By Kayte Knower
Oct 29, 2009
paralysis by analysis
Kevin Friesen wrote:
-Bromelain instead of Vit I...very effective anti-inflammatory if taken on an empty stomach with no side effects. -Fish oil


I really like bromelain too.

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By Evan S
From Erie, CO
Oct 29, 2009
Me, of course
Aerili wrote:
Magnesium deficiency is rare in people, EVS.


According to who? Many people get the RDA of Mg, but are you sure that is the ODA? Not even close. In the future this era will be known as "the great magnesium drought." I'm sure you have your own sources of information that you "trust," but so do I. I base all my claims on PERSONAL experimentation and experience, not just what I paid someone to tell me. Thank you very much...

You seem to be claiming ultimate knowledge and sage-itude yourself, where does this attitude come from? How are you so absolutely sure everything you think you know is from the mouth of god himself? I'm not directly trying to criticize you like you have me, I just want you to take a step back really think about what you're saying. As far as supplements, I work in the supplement industry. Sure there are some crappy brands, but there are many that are extremely high quality. Do you really think everyone is trying to sell you sand in a pill and claim it's something else? There are some of the most dedicated, health oriented people in the world working to bring others nutritional supplements that can improve their lives. You're awfully cynical for being so young, maybe you'll grow out of that.

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