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V thread directly w/ rope?
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By Brian marsh
From Snowmass
Dec 16, 2013
Relaxing at the top of looking glass.

Just curious does anyone run their rope directly thru their v thread holes rather than using cord and leaving that behind.
Seems that would be better than pulling rope against cord, also you're leaving cord behind.


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By Keenan Waeschle
From Bozeman, MT
Dec 16, 2013
on top of the RNWF <br />June 2012

with dry twin ropes in cold conditions, yes. having your rope freeze in place really sucks. Once you start pulling you can't stop. The friction can melt the ice which will refreeze and get your rope stuck. Most of the time carrying a knife and length of 6 mm cord is easier and safer.

I wouldn't try it with anything fatter than 8 mm.


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By Amadeus
Administrator
From Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan
Dec 16, 2013
Me and Pasha on Reveil Matin in Chongkurchak, Kyrgyzstan.

We've been using the Abalakov (real name of the V-thread named after the Russian who invented the technique) for years. We've always used cord to do it, but yesterday I saw an info-video from Petzl on Youtube about using the rope directly through your Abalakov. To be honest, I'd never thought of that, but I'm skeptical of using it, especially in wet conditions as it would easily freeze inside the hole.

Here is the Petzl video with them using the rope directly through the Abalakov:



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By Jim Amidon
Dec 16, 2013
What ??

Rarely in the last 10 years of ice climbing in Cody have I left any material behind.

One 22cm screw, two holes, put skinny rope thru.....rappel....

I have NEVER, read NEVER had a rope freeze in the holes.....

I think it's more myth than reality.......

I do carry bail cord and a snap link for when the conditions apply....

But why leave anything if you don't have too......

I'd say 95% of my V-Threads were without leaving cord.....


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By Amadeus
Administrator
From Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan
Dec 16, 2013
Me and Pasha on Reveil Matin in Chongkurchak, Kyrgyzstan.

I'm all for trying this out. It makes more sense (and cents) not to use cord all the time. I'll have to give it a shot this next weekend.


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By Buff Johnson
Dec 16, 2013
smiley face

One of the main points forgotten about cord is that it lessened the impact from other materials being used as a bail anchor -- pipes, tubing, or other kinds of redneckery shit.

In so much as you could argue a rope around a tree, or around a rock or horn, certainly it is possible. However, it seems the cleanest rap with cord has the better opportunity not to get stuck and also keep the rope in good condition. People get ropes stuck all the time. Maybe it's not of great consequence doing a two-three pitch ice crag (which usually have bail stations anyway), but a more committing route, I'm using cord and getting the hell out of there.


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By Allen Sanderson
From Oootah
Dec 16, 2013

I have been doing this for over 25 years on alpine routes. First time was in AK with a 9mm rope. It is pretty much the same as with a snow bollard.


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By JonBates
From cody, wy
Dec 16, 2013

This method works extremely well. I thread my 9.2 single through the ice and tie my 7mm tag line to it for double rope raps and have never had a rope freeze up. The way I see it, you've eliminated the weakest link, the cordage. The next weakest link (granted you've threaded good ice) is the tag line which if that were to blow the over hand knot would jam in the ice and you wouldn't plummet. Obviously twins or doubles work great too. It cuts down on trash to. The only draw back is you have to remove the end caps or tape from some ropes to be able to hook it with your threading tool, and it can fray the last inch of rope a little from repeated hooking.


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By Brian marsh
From Snowmass
Dec 16, 2013
Relaxing at the top of looking glass.

Thanks guys some great info here.
All things considered I'm going to give it several tries with different configurations, in an area where if the rope gets stuck I will still be able to get back to the anchor safely.
Mostly trying a 90degree V, an 80degree V and also an A thread (vertical holes rather than horizonal)
What I'm thinking is that with an 80degree V any possible melting that could freeze the rope in place would flow out. This same idea applies with the A thread.
I'm excited to try this and will post later after putting it to test a bit.


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By Kevin Craig
Dec 18, 2013
KC on Fields (medium).  Photo (c) Doug Shepherd

Only real issue is picking out the weave at the end of the rope with your v-thread tool. Otherwise, no worries. I imagine a rare condition with super cold (sub zero) temps on a climb with running water your ropes might freeze, but otherwise probably not. Always a good idea to keep pulling once you start in any case, but probably doubly good here when doing "naked" v-threads (as this technique is sometimes called).


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