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Using slings for draws
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Mar 26, 2010
Red River Gorge.
I'm curious as to how many people who make quickdraws out of slings use a band to prevent the rope carabiner from twisting. I'm only asking because instead of buying more quickdraws I'd like to just use 2 slings to make my own quickdraws and use those at the top anchors of sport routes to set up my own top rope system. I was thinking I'd use atleast one locker on the rope end of one sling for redundancy. Does this seem pretty safe and redundant? Any suggestions to make it safer? Arik
From Fairplay, CO
Joined Mar 31, 2009
20 points
Mar 26, 2010
smoke break, pitch 5 or 6 (or 7??) of Dark Shadows
I do it all the time. I don't really use quickdraws anymore, don't do a lot of sport. Slings are perfect, but I don't understand why/how you would "use two slings to make your own quickdraws". Why two?

I don't always use lockers at anchors either. With two or three slings (one per piece) that's enough redundancy for me. Sometimes I'll toss on an extra carabiner facing the other direction. You could get a cordalette too, but depends on how the anchor system is.
Eric Krantz
From Black Hills
Joined Feb 21, 2004
469 points
Mar 26, 2010
i don't even get the point behind quickdraws. "trad draws" will catch a fall just as well as stiff quickdraws but they're extendable, and you can use them at top anchors. i see no downsides of using extendable draws in all situations. T.L. Kushner
Joined May 21, 2009
7 points
Mar 26, 2010
Rock Wars, RRG, 2008
My trad slings have done just fine for decades; suddenly they got shortened, thinner and turned into 'quickdraws by name only. Woodchuck ATC
Joined Nov 29, 2007
3,090 points
Mar 27, 2010
tower fever
1/2 my sport rack is trad draws Im glad I gotem for roofs & other stuff
I do alota mixed rts so trad gear is always not far
dan zika
From jax wy
Joined May 27, 2009
6 points
Mar 27, 2010
Whaaaat?
mountainproject.com/v/general_...

I got some pretty good advice with this post.
BackCountry
From Ogden, UT
Joined Oct 29, 2009
421 points
Mar 27, 2010
Red River Gorge.
Eric Krantz wrote:
I do it all the time. I don't really use quickdraws anymore, don't do a lot of sport. Slings are perfect, but I don't understand why/how you would "use two slings to make your own quickdraws". Why two? I don't always use lockers at anchors either. With two or three slings (one per piece) that's enough redundancy for me. Sometimes I'll toss on an extra carabiner facing the other direction. You could get a cordalette too, but depends on how the anchor system is.


Hey Eric, I actually meant to make two separate quickdraws to use at the top anchors to set up a top rope system, not two slings to make one quickdraw. Could of explained what I was asking better. So does anyone use the band to stop the draw from twisting?
Arik
From Fairplay, CO
Joined Mar 31, 2009
20 points
Apr 25, 2010
Arik wrote:
So does anyone use the band to stop the draw from twisting?


if you're making short draws for sport climbing, a rubber band can help and is perfectly acceptable to keep the biner on the rope side from flipping. Always leave the biner on the bolt side floppy. Most people in this thread are talking about using 24" slings to make extendable draws or "trad" draws which are useful in many applications as well.
S Denny
From Aspen, CO
Joined Sep 25, 2008
24 points
Apr 25, 2010
T.L. Kushner wrote:
i don't even get the point behind quickdraws. "trad draws" will catch a fall just as well as stiff quickdraws but they're extendable, and you can use them at top anchors. i see no downsides of using extendable draws in all situations.


So clearly you don't project much then. Nothing wrong with that, just means that you never find yourself in a situation where a stiff draw is an advantage. Similarly, I'd imagine that people who don't climb ice really don't understand the reason for one bent shaft over another. Or that non-bicycle enthusiasts miss the nuance between Tiagra and Dura-Ace.
Brian Scoggins
From Boise, ID
Joined Mar 12, 2002
1,074 points
Apr 26, 2010
If you have 2 biners opposite and opposed on the anchor....then you are "redundant". A single locker doesn't make anything "redundant". Blake Cash
Joined May 27, 2007
195 points
Jun 25, 2010
"use a band to prevent the rope carabiner from twisting"

I just saw a Petzl ?? vid about NOT putting a band on a trad draw sling. During storage and/or racking the sling can "flip" around on the biner unnoticed with only the band holding it.

too lazy to find the vid.
splitclimber
Joined Jan 22, 2007
45 points
Jun 25, 2010
Coffee after freezing our asses off near James Pea...
T.L. Kushner wrote:
i don't even get the point behind quickdraws. "trad draws" will catch a fall just as well as stiff quickdraws but they're extendable, and you can use them at top anchors. i see no downsides of using extendable draws in all situations.


Quickdraws are superior for sport climbing and they clip a lot easier. They can also be configured so that the way the gates open on the bottom is predictable, whereas with a runner equipped draw it is hard to tell.

That said I no longer reconfigure my draws for sport then back to trad. I just bring both.
Stich
From Colorado Springs, Colorado
Joined Jan 1, 2001
1,494 points
Jun 25, 2010
Final pitch
In general I use trad draws for trad. Sport draws for sport. If you never climb at or beyond your limit you can get away with trad draws for both. Don't use a band on either biner to keep it from flipping if you are using a sling.

ukclimbing.com/videos/play.php...
joe disciullo
From Charlotte, NC
Joined Sep 23, 2009
126 points
Jun 25, 2010
Trad draws...never heard that one before...oxymoronic? Always called them alpine draws or extendable draws. What if you used a trad draw on a sport route? GASP! bheller
From SL UT
Joined Nov 8, 2007
1,149 points
Jun 25, 2010
Prussik Peak
I'd been using rubber bands on slings to keep the biners in place until a week or so ago, when I saw this report of a fatal accident involving that setup. Checkout the UK climbing video that Joe linked to above, kind of scary.

mountainproject.com/v/injuries...
JT Lehman
From Portland, OR
Joined Mar 3, 2008
85 points
Dec 26, 2013
Where's Waldo?
I would think that the advantage of quick draws is how "organized" they are on your harness. You can grab them quickly, without much fumbling.

Alpine draws can get all twisted and fumbled up because of all the loose, doubled-up sling material....

in my opinion.
Russ Keane
Joined Feb 8, 2013
208 points
Feb 14, 2014
Potrero Mexico, Sport Climbing Mecca.
One serious point, we should avoid using a biner keeper or rubber band type product on an open sling, they are specifically for use on the rope end (the shorter) on sport dogbones. Serious accidents can result, knowing the biner can unclip itself and go unnoticed till failure. Just search for "open loop sling danger" if you would like to know more. The Tito Traversa tragedy isn't an exact representation of the problem, but it's cause and failure share similarities. Craig Childre
From Lubbock, Texas
Joined Aug 28, 2006
4,824 points
Feb 14, 2014
Craig Childre wrote:
One serious point, we should avoid using a biner keeper or rubber band type product on an open sling, they are specifically for use on the rope end (the shorter) on sport dogbones. Serious accidents can result, knowing the biner can unclip itself and go unnoticed till failure.


True. And adequately discussed in this thread 3-1/2 years ago.
Gunkiemike
Joined Jul 29, 2009
1,666 points
Feb 14, 2014
Me and Holden at the "Matterhorn"
If we are talking two bolt sport anchors, just build a 6mm "quad" style anchor and be done with it. Hard to get any more bomber or redundant than that. As a bonus, if you already own 4 lockers, it should only cost about $7.00.
-Mackley
Robbie Mackley
From Tucson, AZ
Joined May 6, 2010
90 points
Feb 14, 2014
I tend to use quick draws for sport runners for gear lines. Sometimes an extendable is needed on a sport route, for clipping lower or for rope drag. In these cases I put a little tape on my rope biner side. Just above the biner to keep it from inverting. The hanger side I just leave free. You can also use a rubber band but they tend to bunch and if I don't like to do that especially if using a 3/4 tubular webbing, spectra doesn't much matter. These are usually situation based as well, so I usually have tape not a rubber band. I've never used a locker on a sport anchor, never felt it was necessary. Ian Cavanaugh
Joined Sep 6, 2010
369 points
Feb 14, 2014
Tying in at Cox Hollow
Just make sure that you keep the biner that goes to the bolt and the biner that goes to the rope consistent. You don't want to mix and match and risk getting burrs on the rope biner.

My extendable draws have one straight gate biner and one bent gate biner, so this is easy for me. A band is good, but if you move the band you lose the indicator.
Zach Parsons
From Milwaukee, WI
Joined Aug 7, 2013
56 points
Feb 18, 2014
Potrero Mexico, Sport Climbing Mecca.
Had not considered using a bent gate on one end of my trad slings. I'd be more likey to cross them over using that system. Thanks! Craig Childre
From Lubbock, Texas
Joined Aug 28, 2006
4,824 points
Feb 21, 2014
Zach Parsons wrote:
Just make sure that you keep the biner that goes to the bolt and the biner that goes to the rope consistent. You don't want to mix and match and risk getting burrs on the rope biner. My extendable draws have one straight gate biner and one bent gate biner, so this is easy for me. A band is good, but if you move the band you lose the indicator.


This is also a good point, on all of my extendables I use a nano for the bolt/gear side and a helium for the rope side. this keeps weight down and makes it easy to know what goes where. also while the nanos are super light, they can sometimes be hard to clip, this some what alleviates that issue.
Ian Cavanaugh
Joined Sep 6, 2010
369 points
Feb 21, 2014
Different colors also work well. Bolt/gear goes on the silver end, rope on the red PatCleary
From Rohnert Park, CA
Joined Sep 23, 2011
0 points
Feb 22, 2014
me
Stich wrote:
Quickdraws are superior for sport climbing and they clip a lot easier. They can also be configured so that the way the gates open on the bottom is predictable, whereas with a runner equipped draw it is hard to tell. That said I no longer reconfigure my draws for sport then back to trad. I just bring both.

obvious post is obvious :)
5.samadhi
Joined Jul 20, 2013
27 points


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