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By nick serrano
From Albuquerque, NM
Jan 5, 2013
Chest Full of Kind (IC 5.10)

I just got a notification when I fired up the app this morning that to continue to access data after May 2013, I would need to re-download it and pay a fee of $9.99. No problem there, but I was wondering if this is a one-time charge or if it's going to be a subscription service with recurring charges.


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By NorCalNomad
From San Francisco
Jan 5, 2013

I was also wondering about this since I paid the original subscription fee and was wondering how that will be factored into this.


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By Nick Wilder
Site Landlord
From The Bubble
Jan 5, 2013
Personal Photo

The fee will be a one-time fee of $9.99 with unlimited data access and no recurring charges. We decided not to do a subscription plan.

When we first launched the app, we had a subscription plan of $4.99/year. That ended in May 2012, and it has been free since then.

For those of you that paid $4.99 once, you will have to pay $9.99 if you want to use the app starting in May like everyone else. You will not be automatically charged. We realize this means some of you will have paid more than others, but due to Apple privacy controls, we actually can't identify who paid $4.99 even if we did want to give them a break.

We came to the conclusion that we have a great offering, and $10 (or $15 for some people), is a hell of a deal for a guide to most climbing in America, especially one that is constantly updated and improved!


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By Jon Zucco
From Denver, CO
Jan 5, 2013
yaak crack Red Rock Canyon, NV

Nick Wilder wrote:
We came to the conclusion that we have a great offering, and $10 (or $15 for some people), is a hell of a deal for a guide to most climbing in America, especially one that is constantly updated and improved!


true that.


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By nick serrano
From Albuquerque, NM
Jan 6, 2013
Chest Full of Kind (IC 5.10)

Sounds good. Thanks for the quick reply!


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By Reginald McChufferton
Jan 6, 2013

Sorry you paid 5 bucks for something that we decided to give away later for free, and as a thank you we're going to charge you 10 more and tell you it's an awesome deal!

Sounds like the usual rational decision making that happens around MP.


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By Mark Wyss
From Denver, CO
Jan 6, 2013
Mt. Baker

Reginald McChufferton wrote:
Sorry you paid 5 bucks for something that we decided to give away later for free, and as a thank you we're going to charge you 10 more and tell you it's an awesome deal! Sounds like the usual rational decision making that happens around MP.


Not sure you have much room to complain given your contributions to the site.


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By Mark E Dixon
From Sprezzatura, Someday
Jan 6, 2013
At the BRC

I haven't contributed that much to MP, certainly not as much as I've received, but it does bother me that I jumped at the chance to pay $5, then when the app became free, was told that the money would be credited in the future and am now told tough luck.


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By Reginald McChufferton
Jan 6, 2013

Mark Wyss wrote:
Not sure you have much room to complain given your contributions to the site.

I've contributed plenty to this site. Sorry you don't like what I have to say.


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By DannyUncanny
From Vancouver
Jan 6, 2013

Yeah, I recall being told that anyone who paid for it would get their remaining time credited to them after it went back to subscription.


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By Andy Laakmann
Site Landlord
From Bend, OR
Jan 6, 2013
Racked and loaded... name that splitter behind me? Hint, its on Supercrack Buttress

Here is the back story on the price changes:

  • We originally launched with a $4.99/year subscription
  • Apple approved this system. Life was good
  • 6 months into it Apple decided only "media businesses" could use their subscription system, which excluded MP. They deactivated our ability to charge a subscription.
  • Our only choice was either free or one-time purchase
  • Faced with that choice, we decided to give the app away for 6 months to create some buzz. All the messaging indicated we'd start charging for it on-or-around Jan 2013
  • The 6 months came last month, and we decided to not start charging the one-time fee until May (another 6 months) to allow all those who DID pay the $4.99 towards the end of the subscription period to have a full year since it was impossible to know who to credit (because of Apple privacy restrictions) . Apple does not provide us access to any of the purchase details.

So you can see, these weren't knee jerk price changes. Apple forced a choice on us, we decided to make it free for a period, and then extended the free period for an entire year to avoid any users being "double charged".

Hope that explains it.

- Andy


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By Marc H
From Lafayette, CO
Jan 6, 2013
The Cathedral Spires in RMNP, left to right: Stiletto, Sharkstooth, Forbidden Tower, Petit Grepon, The Saber, The Foil, The Moon & The Jackknife.

I wish I had waited and not paid the initial $4.99. But now I that I have, and see what a great app it is, I'm happy to pay the additional $10. Thanks for putting the work into the app. I hope you guys make a few bucks.


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By Mark E Dixon
From Sprezzatura, Someday
Jan 6, 2013
At the BRC

How about offering those who paid the $4.99 a $5 off coupon for the tshirts, maybe require a $25 purchase? You won't lose any money and everyboy will feel like they got a fair deal. Make it the honor system except for Reginald. Get those ts off the shelf and out in front of potential advertisers too.


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By Andy Laakmann
Site Landlord
From Bend, OR
Jan 6, 2013
Racked and loaded... name that splitter behind me? Hint, its on Supercrack Buttress

Great idea Mark... but....

We don't know who purchased the subscription! Apple holds that information, not us. When you bought that subscription (or any app purchase for that matter), you are making that purchase from Apple... not the app vendor. And they do not release that info to the app vendors.

It's pretty amazing the control Apple has on their ecosystem. It's hard not to admire their balls and ability in maintaining such control.

Edit: just saw the "make in an honor system". Good idea, I'll discuss with Nick.


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By Jon Zucco
From Denver, CO
Jan 6, 2013
yaak crack Red Rock Canyon, NV

Mark E Dixon wrote:
How about offering those who paid the $4.99 a $5 off coupon for the tshirts, maybe require a $25 purchase? You won't lose any money and everyboy will feel like they got a fair deal. Make it the honor system except for Reginald. Get those ts off the shelf and out in front of potential advertisers too.


I like this idea. Everybody wins.


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By Charlie S
From Ogden, UT
Jan 6, 2013
Cams above the arm bar moves on Three Pigs in a Slot, Indian Creek.

"Here is the back story on the price changes:

  • We originally launched with a $4.99/year subscription
  • Apple approved this system. Life was good
  • 6 months into it Apple decided only "media businesses" could use their subscription system, which excluded MP. They deactivated our ability to charge a subscription.
  • Our only choice was either free or one-time purchase
  • Faced with that choice, we decided to give the app away for 6 months to create some buzz. All the messaging indicated we'd start charging for it on-or-around Jan 2013
  • The 6 months came last month, and we decided to not start charging the one-time fee until May (another 6 months) to allow all those who DID pay the $4.99 towards the end of the subscription period to have a full year since it was impossible to know who to credit (because of Apple privacy restrictions) . Apple does not provide us access to any of the purchase details. So you can see, these weren't knee jerk price changes. Apple forced a choice on us, we decided to make it free for a period, and then extended the free period for an entire year to avoid any users being "double charged". Hope that explains it. - Andy"

Thanks for the clarification. Seeing as I bought the app in March, I at least will get over a year of use on it.

I don't really want to pay $10 for it, but I used it so much over the past year that it's worth it, especially when climbing in Utah's Wasatch Range; the last book published here was in 1998, so the updates on MP really compliment the climbing.


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By Andy Laakmann
Site Landlord
From Bend, OR
Jan 6, 2013
Racked and loaded... name that splitter behind me? Hint, its on Supercrack Buttress

Nick just informed me we sell our t-shirts at wholesale. It was a good idea though! We use Cafepress, which is a print-on-demand service for the shirts. If we used sweat shops in China we could probably get them cheaper, but then we'd need to stock and ship t-shirts.. and that'd make Nick grumpy :)


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By Austin Baird
From SLC, Utah
Jan 6, 2013
Me scaring years off my mom's life

If you paid the $4.99 for it, you paid for a one year subscription...correct? You got one one year out of it...correct? You got EXACTLY what you paid for...correct? Then the pricing scheme changed, but it didn't change the fact that you still got what you paid for...correct? And we're talking about $4.99...correct?

If anyone feels like the big bad purveyors of MP are just being TOO unfair or that the $4.99 they're "out" is TOO MUCH of a hardship, post a picture of yourself holding a sign that says "I'll humiliate myself for $4.99" and I'll send you a check.


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By Mark E Dixon
From Sprezzatura, Someday
Jan 6, 2013
At the BRC

Andy Laakmann wrote:
Nick just informed me we sell our t-shirts at wholesale. It was a good idea though! We use Cafepress, which is a print-on-demand service for the shirts. If we used sweat shops in China we could probably get them cheaper, but then we'd need to stock and ship t-shirts.. and that'd make Nick grumpy :)


That's no problem. Just limit the discount to one month, raise the t-shirt prices $6 for "a while" and you'll make money on the deal. I wouldn't have even known the prices if I hadn't looked today.

Free enterprise at work!


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By Paul-B
Jan 6, 2013
Flakes of Wrath

Austin Baird wrote:
If you paid the $4.99 for it, you paid for a one year subscription...correct? You got one one year out of it...correct? You got EXACTLY what you paid for...correct? Then the pricing scheme changed, but it didn't change the fact that you still got what you paid for...correct? And we're talking about $4.99...correct? If anyone feels like the big bad purveyors of MP are just being TOO unfair or that the $4.99 they're "out" is TOO MUCH of a hardship, post a picture of yourself holding a sign that says "I'll humiliate myself for $4.99" and I'll send you a check.


+1

Only I would not mail you a check


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By Princess Mia
From Vail
Jan 6, 2013
Chillin' at City of Rocks

It's worth every penny!!!!

I mean where else can you have so much fun trolling????


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By Ryan Williams
Administrator
From London (sort of)
Jan 6, 2013
El Chorro

I can't believe that people are bitching and moaning about this. Why do climbers feel the need to claim this "dirtbag" status? Let's be real, all of you have plenty of money to pay for the gas, the coffee, and the guide books you need to go climbing. If having a $5 open source app on your phone is breaking your bank then TRADE IN YOUR iPHONE for a $10 Nokia green screen.

What a joke.

PS I have never even seen the app in use. I'd rather pay $4.99 to get this thread deleted.


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By Tradoholic
Jan 6, 2013

Anyone whining about a $5 refund should be shot.

On a related note I would pay even more if there was more effort put into regulation and cleaning up of entries. There's a bit of junk information out there that needs to be deleted. Money could be used to employ trustworthy dirtbags to climb and then enter high quality information. The dream job for many of us I would guess.

Some suggested improvements in the app:
-Allow for comments to be done via the app.

-Allow more than 1000 pics to be downloaded at once. No big deal, just annoys me.

Some others but they escape me currently.
Climb on!


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By John Hegyes
From Las Vegas, NV
Jan 6, 2013
South of Windy Peak

I'm totally happy with the $10 price for a lifetime subscription to the MP database. It would be a deal at twice the cost.


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By DrApnea
From Salt Lake City, UT
Jan 6, 2013

All this talk about iphone restrictions. What about us android folk. Don't forget us...


I paid the cash about two weeks before it went free on my android. Kind of annoyed me at the time, but I use it a ton and will support it by paying again unless they carry over the funds which doesn't sound likely.

Also please increase the photo download limit. Locations that have 1007 photos require you to open all 50 sub areas to get all the photos. It would be nice to be able to just download them all if you want, or select a number of the sub areas to keep it under 1000 but not require 50 individual downloads.


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By Mark E Dixon
From Sprezzatura, Someday
Jan 6, 2013
At the BRC

Austin Baird wrote:
If you paid the $4.99 for it, you paid for a one year subscription...correct? You got one one year out of it...correct? You got EXACTLY what you paid for...correct? Then the pricing scheme changed, but it didn't change the fact that you still got what you paid for...correct? And we're talking about $4.99...correct? If anyone feels like the big bad purveyors of MP are just being TOO unfair or that the $4.99 they're "out" is TOO MUCH of a hardship, post a picture of yourself holding a sign that says "I'll humiliate myself for $4.99" and I'll send you a check.


Well, I don't know...
For $5 I can get half a six pack of microbrew, trade two beers for two stuck cams (worth $60 each) and still have a beer for myself.
Now we're talking about real money! And real beer.


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