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Unknown (5.10d) 
Unknown 5.7 
Welcome to My Nightmare 

Unknown 5.7 

YDS: 5.9 French: 5c Ewbanks: 17 UIAA: VI British: HVS 5a

Type:  Trad, 1 pitch, 70'
Consensus:  YDS: 5.9 French: 5c Ewbanks: 17 UIAA: VI British: HVS 5a [details]
FA: Unknown 5.7
Page Views: 294
Submitted By: slk on Aug 13, 2012
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Left Slanting Crack. Look Close. Starts all the wa...


Dirty, dirty but getting cleaner left slanting hand crack. Full value! I don't think this is a 5.7, dirty or not, I think 5.9 is more like it. Lots of lichen to make it even more difficult.


Tunnel Slabs. Best to drive through the tunnels if this is all you're doing. If not, head up when you finished another climb or huff it up the middle gully to the top of the main wall.



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By John Jackson
Aug 13, 2012

The description of the photo is not correct, unfortunately. (EDIT: It is correct now)

Route #21 at "Tunnel Slab" in the North Tahoe guidebook is not on the left side of this photo as described above. Route #19 goes up the, crackless, slab just left of center. Route #20 goes up the crack system to the right of that and route #18 is the route visible in the left of this photo.(Steeper and trickier than it looks) Route #21 is a very obvious, heavily, left slanting crack to the right of route #20. (Can just barely make out the upper third section at the top of the photo. The start of the crack disappears off the right side of the photo about two thirds the way to the top of photo)

Thanks for getting out and climbing/cleaning up these obscure Donner routes, and thank you for obviously purchasing my new guidebook!! If others wish to see more (ACCURATE info) obscure routes published in the future, please support the effort to document/publish them by purchasing the guidebook and adding unpublished material only to this site. Help support authors/research/publishing costs for future upcoming LOCALS GUIDE comprehensive guidebooks for Northern California by purchasing a copy of the "LOCALS GUIDE to Rock Climbs of North Tahoe" at camp4press.com and contributing to the feedback page where all additions/update info for the area is being collected.

By slk
From: Reno, NV
Aug 14, 2012

John, Mustard will attest to my uncanny ability to mix up left and right. It's the left slanting crack that starts to the right of the picture (edited description). Hard man, hard. Not 5.7.

If others wish to see more (ACCURATE info) obscure routes published in the future, please support the effort to document/publish them by purchasing the guidebook and adding UNPUBLISHED material only to this site. Help support authors/research/publishing costs for future upcoming LOCALS GUIDE comprehensive guidebooks for Northern California by purchasing a copy of the "LOCALS GUIDE to Rock Climbs of North Tahoe" at camp4press.com and contributing to the feedback page where all additions/update info for the area is being collected.

Sorry John, I feel like I have offended. Was hoping to promote the book not hurt it. I don't see what PUBLISHED material I have posted besides the number listed in your book and height. If you feel I should nuke this let me know.

I attempted to climb an obscure dirty route that you demand of us "Clean this thing and make it a very nice route", so we did and put the word out.

As stated before, let me know if I should nuke.

BTW. Buy the Locals Guide to Rock Climbs of North Lake Tahoe because if you are a 5.7 leader like me you'll have some options.

By John Jackson
Aug 14, 2012

^^^^^^ No offense. Posting up about having cleaned up a previously mungy, obscure route and giving a different opinion about the published rating of a route is the perfect use for the Mountain Project site. Posting up new/updated (or discussing ratings) is a good servive to the climbing commmunity. Posting up info that is available in a guidebook is not imo.

It is important for climbers to realize that Mountain Project, for all it's good intentions, has destroyed the possibility for producing an, economically viable, guidebook in certain parts of the country by posting up to much info taken from published guidebooks. Has not happened in Northern California yet, but it could. Once enough route info about a region is posted on the net (usually originally gleaned by the efforts of a guidebook author at some point in the past) climbers don't feel the need to buy a guidebook. Not enough guidebook sales to even break even on the production/setup costs = no more guidebooks = authors not going out and doing the time consuming task of researching, publishing the obscure, moderate routes that no one knows about=everyone climbing the same old trade routes that everyone already knows about. (and rarely does anyone do the hard reseach on the history of a route, unless it is readily available from a guidebook, in order to include it on MP)
Posting new info on MP is great, however, posting info available from the hard work of a guidebook author may not be in the long term interest of the climbing community. One overzealous person (or a collection of individuals working separately) could, in theory, destroy the economic viability for a new guidebook to EVER again be updated for a region. Certainly a topic for discusion anyhow.

Thanks again for the effort to clean up the, heavy amount, of lichen on that otherwise nice little route and letting everyone know that the route is in better shape now. Certainly did not intend to come off sounding harsh.

As for the ratings of the routes on "Tunnel Slab": I had absolutely no info on the routes until we headed up there to see what we could discover. (Thought the bolted slab route was going to be an easy little 5.9 cruise when I headed up for the onsite. Surprise not) I climbed all the routes only once and gave MY estimation of the ratings. Hard to believe that rock just above the most popular cliff in North Tahoe would rarely get climbed, but that is how it is. Not in the guidebook = rarely climbed, no matter how good the climb or easy the access. Good to hear another opinion now that it has cleaned up, and glad to hear you are out there bagging all those obscure moderates!!

By slk
From: Reno, NV
Aug 14, 2012

Cool John, it was a beast of a climb.

I really was trying to draw attention to your book because it is so extensive and great to have in the pack. I understand your issue with the site killing guide book sales but I see at as free advertisement. I would be pissed if someone just copied your description out of the book but this wasn't the case, I've the scrapes on my hands to prove it.

I also think it is good to post the climbs on here to open up dialogue on the climbs. It's nice to hear what other people think and if it wasn't for sites like MP this dialogue wouldn't happen because everyone would be climbing the same ten classic climbs.

I'm on your side man and I will keep plugging your book :)

By John Jackson
Aug 14, 2012

Thanks, I appreciate the support. Like I indicated above I thought MP is an appropiate place for the type of post you made (it contained new info, about being cleaned up, and opened a discusion on the rating) I only responded because the reference to left vs right were switched in the posted photo, and felt I should mention that it was incorrect.

Part of the other comment, not directed at this post btw, probably was spurred by a very recent experience I had. A prospective guidebook author approached me about assisting (producing/publishing/financing) a guidebook project which he had been collecting new route info for in a region I am not really familiar with (a region in Southern California) I contacted a few places that might have a feel for the need/marketability of a new guidebook for their region. ALL of the responses I got were that "climbers around here do not buy guidebooks anymore, they just use Mountain Project". A real shame because the guy did have some interesting/unique new areas/routes to put in an updated book. However, it is very likely that the info would very quickly get added to the MP site for that region, based on how much info (probably originally put out in a guidebook) that had previously been added, and thereby rendering the guidebook a financial impossibilty. (The initial setup costs for a full color, quality guidebook are far more than most would ever expect and just printing a few hundred copies is financially out of the question)

Just hoping that never happens here in Northern California, as we have an exciting series of "LOCALS GUIDE" guidebooks for Northern California in the works from various authors and are hoping the internet sites do not make publishing them, and documenting all the really fun new crags, financially prohibitive by killing the guidebook sales. Not only does that hurt the authors, but it hurts the retailers/shops (whom reap the majority of the profits, unless the book is purchased through our website) Even in the best of circumstances it is hard to just break even, as the numbers are still relatively small vs the initial cost outlay of commercial printing.

Hope to see you out there beating the bushes and gardening the cracks on the next long forgotten, obscure route! Hearing about climbers checking out the obscure routes that were included in the new guide is the most rewarding part of the effort It took. :)

By slk
From: Reno, NV
Aug 15, 2012

Cool John, that makes more sense. All valid points. Damn the internet!!!

I want your book to do well, it deserves it!!! Do you offer pdf versions? This may appeal more to the internet crowd with their iPhones and smart devices. Just a thought.

It was my first foray into a dirty route, and honestly, I liked it!! Well, in a sick kind of way.

I see more groveling in my future. :)