Unable to Belay with ATC guide?!?!?

so I went climbing today and used my old ATC guide and ended up belaying from the top with the ATC in guide mode directly off the anchor. Weirdly I couldn't pull any rope through the ATC to take in slack while my second was following. It was properly loaded but felt 'stuck' in a way that all the tricks I knew couldn't free the thing. I had to put force on the biner clipped into the bight of rope passing through the ATC channels by pulling on it to be able to simultaneously take in slack. Only thing that's changed is that I did a long trip with a lot of sport climbing and ice climbing and have probably done 2-300+ pitches without using it in guide mode... Wtf happened? Not my first time in guide mode by a long shot but damn... Thing just didn't want to budge!

Was using a petzl attaché biner

Edit: is this normal or common when these things get worn out?

Were you using a thinner rope than usual?

Sure it just wasn't upside down? It happens to the best of us.....

Was it your normal rope, or an old fatty rope?

This happened to me recently with my alpine smart. I realized after fucking around for five minutes flipping the device over, switching the rope orientation, etc, that I had simply slung my tree anchor too low. Embarrassing. I won't make that mistake Again.

Duh. It was a fatter 9.8 that's gotten fuzzy with use and that would explain it. Again duh, thanks guys!

Recognizing that if anyone has a 70m rope that's new or like new you're looking to sell pm me!

Medic741 wrote:Duh. It was a fatter 9.8 that's gotten fuzzy with use and that would explain it. Again duh, thanks guys!

Honestly, this seems unlikely. My normal cragging rope is a fat, fuzzy 10.2mm Maxim big wall rope. It certainly doesn't pull through "smoothly" but it pulls just fine.

My money is on an improperly positioned (or rigged) device.

-Improperly rigger device would pretty much lock it off.
-Narrow profile belay biners also add lots of friction
-Poor technique. (I've seen people try to belay without pulling up slack first this is alot more effort.)

By any chance was it an Attache 3d? I had the same problem using this biner. For one thing the profile isn't round/oval and smooth so the rope doesn't run smoothly over it. Also, the attache is a compact biner, so if you allow either end of the biner to work it's way into the atc it will bind. If you use a large pear biner, and mind it so it stays in the long straight spine of the biner it will work fine. I'm using this setup on a 10.5 rope with no issues.

Fat, fuzzy ropes are 10x harder to move through an ATC Guide in autoblocking mode. Many guides develop elbow pain from the repetitive motion/strain involved (guide services still use 10+ mm ropes a lot). We call it "Reverso elbow".

lukeweiss wrote:T...I had simply slung my tree anchor too low. Embarrassing. I won't make that mistake Again.

Luke could be spot on here. Was your anchor lowering than say waist-height? If the anchor is low, like at your feet, pulling rope through the ATC guide attached to said anchor is going to be a pain in the ass/not really work.

if your master point is low to the ground and slacked its going to be super hard to get the device to feed. if you pas into your anchor and put your weight on it, it should make things a lot easier. ive had this happen a really weird top belay while ice climbing.

others have given possible causes ...

however id would suggest a temporary solution if yr finding it very hard to pull up slack from the top for whatever reason and yr climber is already climbing ....

since youll have some slack build up simply throw on a quick munter ... preferably on the anchors if youve got enough slack, on the harness if u dun

the locked off guide plate keeps the climber fairly secure while u do so

which exact rope wuz it?

;)

I find that attache 3d does not work well with the guide in guide mode. The non 3d version is fine because it has curved surfaces, but the ridges on the 3D keep the rope from feeding.

Weird. It's the Mammut Tusk, and was using the old style Attache that's not the 3D. I'll try it on a tree or something tomorrow cause it happened again today, and after doing this literally hundreds of times with no complication or issue, it's bizarre having this issue all of a sudden.

Now that I'm considering trying a different belay device how does the SMART 'feel' in guide mode?

BearBreeder, that's a great idea!

Medic741 wrote:Weird. It's the Mammut Tusk, and was using the old style Attache that's not the 3D. I'll try it on a tree or something tomorrow cause it happened again today, and after doing this literally hundreds of times with no complication or issue, it's bizarre having this issue all of a sudden. Now that I'm considering trying a different belay device how does the SMART 'feel' in guide mode? BearBreeder, that's a great idea!

The tusk is one of those ropes that get stiffer than a horny bear after some use

An alpine smart will easily hande one fairy smoothly in autoblock

However its a poor rope for the smart belaying normally as its very stiff after some use

My suggestion is to try it with a more supple or thinner rope

;)