Twin/Double ropes with party of 3
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I am climbing the grand teton this summer with two others, the approach is a long one and we will be staying overnight, so pack weight and space are precious. |
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I use this exact setup often to bring 2 climbers up more or less concurrently. It allows your party of 3 to move at close to the same pace as a party of 2. Half ropes have been used in this configuration for a while now, but I believe the AMGA is now requiring guide companies to use single ropes instead of half ropes for the double rope system you describe. Your followers will be plenty safe on a half rope system. Twin ropes on the other hand should not be used in this configuration. |
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cyrus wrote: What do you think about double ropes with a party of three instead of two single ropes. Leader goes ties into both ends (will be the same leader the entire route) and is belayed with an atc guide on both ropes. The second and third are tied into one rope each and are belayed up after setting the anchor.Totally standard practice, totally safe. An ~8.4 mm half rope is plenty to protect a following second. I'll even admit that in the Tetons, and other places where I'm doing easy alpine ridge climbing, I kind of like climbing (as a party of 2) with just one 8.4 mm half rope for the party. Saves a lot of weight on that hike in, is easier to handle and to Kiwi coil, and is still plenty safe on a route where you really shouldn't be falling anyway. Remember that the Tetons are definately a "speed is safety" sort of place. The biggest danger there isn't falling (since you really just don't take whips when alpine climbing- nuff said), it is the electrical storms. Skimping a bit on the safety systems is fine if it helps you to move fast and get out of there before 1 pm. This often means a skinnier rope, placing a bit less gear, building anchors with only two pieces if the stance is good, etc. In that light, I'll also need to mention that alpine climbing as a party of 3 sucks, plain and simple.It makes switching/swinging leads difficult, it makes simul-climbing (an important Tetons tool) impractical, and it generally will slow everything down. If you can find an experienced fourth member, allowing you to split into two autonomous parties of 2, this would be a good idea. Also: you can do the raps down the 5th class bit of the Owens Spaulding with one 60m rope, so long as it is a full 60. Just make sure to get good beta for which rap station(s) to use. |
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I use the doubles, it's fine & easier to get off the Grand. |
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Just place extra pro on traverses and you're fine. |
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I used this on Gambit and had an unusual benefit come into play. One of the ropes got stuck somehow in a crack as I was leading. I would have had to downclimb to fix it. But since I had two lines, I untied the stuck one and finished the pitch on the remaining one and brought up the second. That person then freed the stuck rope and I belayed up the third. |
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Simul-climbing in a party of three with half ropes is doable as long as the terrain is moderate. I get where you're coming from with the speed is safety thing Jon. |
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stich that's not really an unusual benefit... its one many benefits of a half rope system! |
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Using a half rope with a party of three, with each of the followers tied into a separate strand is fine. I have done it more than once. However (and I am sure that someone will correct me if I am wrong), you are not supposed to do this with twin ropes. |
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Stich wrote:I used this on Gambit and had an unusual benefit come into play. One of the ropes got stuck somehow in a crack as I was leading. I would have had to downclimb to fix it. But since I had two lines, I untied the stuck one and finished the pitch on the remaining one and brought up the second. That person then freed the stuck rope and I belayed up the third.I've had this happen too |
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NC Rock Climber wrote:you are not supposed to do this with twin ropes. I was not able to find the thread here on MP or the manufacturers link, but there is one floating around out there on this very subject.illusiondweller mentioned this in his reply as well. Here is a link: highinfatuation.com/blog/st… |
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Larry S wrote: I've had this happen tooNow if the rope gets stuck while the third is climbing, I just throw the second down on them to get it unstuck. You lose one in your party, but it's worth the sacrifice. |
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Thanks for your help. You confirmed what I was thinking, but it good to hear smart people say it. Now, I get confused when we talk about half/twin/double ropes, but I'm talking about the 8.3mm or so dynamic 60m ropes from sterling or edelweiss. The 7mm are the twins, right? Yeah, I wouldn't feel comfortable on those. |
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Yeah it's confusing because half/double are completely opposite terms, but they mean the same thing for climbing ropes. |
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hints ... |