Trango Cinch VS GriGri

which would you recommend for a newer climber, my 13yr old would be using it to belay me, i like the auto lock backup but it would never take the place of attention to detail while belaying. i'm running A 10.2 MM 60m rope but i'd like to upgrade down the line to something in the 9.8mm range

Personally, I'd recommend... Neither! Teach him/her proper belay technique (most especially extreme vigilance) using a tube or an ATC or etc. so that they get a thorough experiential understanding of what belaying is all about. Then they can graduate to an autolocker which, in my opinion, is really an advanced technique, not a beginners technique.

I agree with Richard here. Neither device is a tool for beginners. I teach climbing to kids, mostly 12-14, and it doesn't take a lot to teach proper technique with an ATC style device (BUS: break, under, slide). Those "auto" devices are also harder to lower with, much harder to slowly lower someone who is heavier than you. Show your kid an ATC on the ground, lock it off, point out each bend in the rope and every place it makes contact with metal. Have your kid try to pull rope out when it's locked. The friction of a tube device is much easier to understand than the camming action on a Gri-Gri.

i agree. neither should be used for a newer climber. let the boy learn on an ATC or similar. anchor him down if there is a weight difference. after a few years of catching some whippers with an ATC, then he will know the differences between a Cinch or Gri.

Richard Radcliffe wrote:Personally, I'd recommend... Neither! Teach him/her proper belay technique (most especially extreme vigilance) using a tube or an ATC or etc. so that they get a thorough experiential understanding of what belaying is all about. Then they can graduate to an autolocker which, in my opinion, is really an advanced technique, not a beginners technique.

Best advice so far.

Don't teach him to be lazy at first. Go with the real deal. Both devices shine in their own ways. Keep in mind accidents still happen with both and this is due to laziness and thinking the device does everything.

show him the true way.

There was some healthy discussions about the grigri, cinch, and ATC in here:

mountainproject.com/v/climb…

FYI - I use a grigri on a 9.4 rope (flame on, I am sure), and it locks just fine. Granted, I treat my grigri like an ATC, and I never have the hand off the brake line.

I have dabbled with the cinch and I prefer my grigri, mainly for lowering purposes. The cinch is nice though! I only use the grigri for sport climbing anyway, so the size/weight isn't a consideration for me.

However, I did learn off an ATC and am well versed in an ATC... I belay the climber with what ever they prefer.

I disagree. I've taught many beginners to use a gri-gri with no problems whatsoever. Of course, you do need to teach him to use various other devices, as well as the munter hitch.

Now to your question. Although I personally prefer the gri-gri I believe the Trango would be better if you're going with skinny ropes.

Hey, that's all good advice so far. Unusual for an internet forum so I'm even more thankful. The only minor exception I might make is to SAL's comment about "lazy". There's nothing lazy about using a Cinch or Grigri when you're using it correctly. In fact, as some of the posters have noted. using them correctly requires more skill and a more attentive belayer. That's why the Cinch is labeled with "For Expert Use Only".

The best device for a your belayer learning the ropes is an enhanced friction device like the Jaws or Reverso 3.

Climb Safe,
Mal

+1 for the Trango Jaws. That thing is wicked!

Teach your kid how to use them all proficiently. I can use all these devices just fine, but I LOVE the cinch! If you know how to use the cinch properly, the thing is awesome! I find that a lot of people that have been using the gri-gri forever don't really care for the cinch because they have an auto locker that has worked for them for so long. I also find people that have the cinch and don't really care for it because they don't understand how to use it properly. I show those people how to use it and then they like it a lot more. I really recommend learning the cinch inside and out. The thing is great! I lead belay with it all the time!

If you decide to go with the Cinch, then watch this video I think the guy doing the demonstration knows a few things about the cinch :)

Especially note the lowering section at about 4:20 into the vid, and the tip at 5:10 can be used as noted not only for the Cinch but for any device.

Steve

Richard Radcliffe wrote:Personally, I'd recommend... Neither! Teach him/her proper belay technique (most especially extreme vigilance) using a tube or an ATC or etc. so that they get a thorough experiential understanding of what belaying is all about. Then they can graduate to an autolocker which, in my opinion, is really an advanced technique, not a beginners technique.

I'm with Radcliffe.

What type of climbing are you doing? For how long? How often do you fall? How often and how long to you hang on the rope?

I'm with everyone else's opinion teach him how to belay using a device where he does the work that way he actually knows how to belay. If you must have an autolocking device through I'd go with the Mammut S.M.A.R.T. I used one most of this past summer and they work very well and they require the operator to understand and be able to use them much more than the Gri-Gri or Cinch but still have the auto-lock capability.

Malcolm Daly wrote:Hey, that's all good advice so far. Unusual for an internet forum so I'm even more thankful. The only minor exception I might make is to SAL's comment about "lazy". There's nothing lazy about using a Cinch or Grigri when you're using it correctly. In fact, as some of the posters have noted. using them correctly requires more skill and a more attentive belayer. That's why the Cinch is labeled with "For Expert Use Only". The best device for a your belayer learning the ropes is an enhanced friction device like the Jaws or Reverso 3. Climb Safe, Mal

More often then not. Especially in europe, i have noticed, is the belayer becomes fixated on the theory that it is an "auto locking" device. not auto locking assist. The break hand eventually gets further away from the rope. true fact that the devices do require more experiance and skills to use but once those steps are reached it seems to start a different cycle.

I see too many people at the crags hands free with their cinch or grigri.

in grigri we trust.

after talking to several people in the climbing shops here in spokane and reading everything here i've gotten a gri gri. i'll be taking my daughter with me to the local climbing gym to learn how to use it properly before taking it out to the local crags. she has been taught the proper use of the ATC but i like the added safety factor of the autolock since half the time it'll be just her and i. she does toprope only but i like to sport lead

WiledHorse wrote:in grigri we trust.

Thou shalt not have any autolockers before me.

Shawn Mitchell wrote: Thou shalt not have any autolockers before me.

so let it be written.
so let it be done.

WiledHorse wrote: so let it be written. so let it be done.

Atheist's for Cinch!!!

i laughed and still am