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trango ball nuts
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By Healyje
Mar 31, 2013
girl40
Jason Blevins: I would not recommend buy any used Climbing Gear, Ropes, Harnesses, Ect...Climb Shoes are a little Different...You never know what the gear/ropes have been through and looks tells Nothing!!!

I have 4 Ball Nuts, THeir Bomber Protection for Trad. Climbing...But Only Designed for 1 Fall, but when nothing fits, it's more Solid than a Cam if placed right!!! Buy New!!! Expencive 1 time use and meant for only non-wieth bearing Uses( Except that 1 lead fall..no aid, hanging on, Back-up Ancor Only, with slick in it(no weight, just extra back-up)...So Really 2 Uses , 1 mainly Trad.

Leading or no weight on it backup!!! After Weight is put on the Copper molds... Great pro high price, 1 fall or weight put on and time to Retire!!! Climb Safe!!! I would love to get for half price but..Only NEW!!! Good Luck!

Make sure to use as Backup Ancors and give them a little slack, not wieght on them!!! If you fall that ballnut's Cop
per will mold into the crack!!! Reallly meant for 1 Major weight Hit!!!

=====================================================================

Good advice if you're inexperienced or don't know what you're doing, otherwise there's really no problem at all buying used gear and you aren't going to get some good old gear like Lowe/Byrne ballnuts any other way.

Where on earth did you get those ideas? I have four sets of the vastly superior Lowe/Byrne ballnuts and have had the #2-4 on my free climbing rack since they came out. I've taken six twenty-footers in a row onto one of my #3's in the span of twenty minutes and it came out pretty-as-you-please easy without any fuss at all and I'd take six more rides on it tomorrow without a shred of hesitation.

A thread I put up on RC awhile back on the subject:

Careful consideration when putting your balls on the line... !

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By verticon
From Europe
Mar 31, 2013
Jason Blevins wrote:
If you fall that ballnut's Copper will mold into the crack!!! Reallly meant for 1 Major weight Hit!!!


Did you ever hold a BallNut in your hand? You should at least look closer at one before posting BS. The ball part is made of steel and the side contacting the rock is copper coated, just to increase the coef. of friction. Nothing will mold into the crack !

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By TomCaldwell
From Clemson, S.C.
Mar 31, 2013
Me on One Pitch Wonder at Whitesides.  Photo credi...
I like my ballnutz. As it has been said they fit in parallel sided cracks when the slimmest cams won't, and they even have better ratings. The major downfall is that they can be a pita to clean if weighted heavily. I would only recommend the three smallest sizes since above that cams cover that range. I had a friend who weighs over 200lbs take a 30 footer onto the smallest ballnutz available, blue #1, and it held. I couldn't clean it, but when it got colder, it came right out. I also would not recommend using them for free climbing on softer rock. In the SE we have lots of thin seams in quartzite and granite that I wouldn't leave these on the ground. The larger sizes will be fine in some of the harder sandstone.

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By TomCaldwell
From Clemson, S.C.
Mar 31, 2013
Me on One Pitch Wonder at Whitesides.  Photo credi...
Jason Blevins wrote:
Make sure to use as Backup Ancors and give them a little slack, not wieght on them!!! If you fall that ballnut's Copper will mold into the crack!!! Reallly meant for 1 Major weight Hit!!!


It does not mold to the crack. The ball can be scarred on top where it is softest. The smallest ballnutz typical fail because the soldering point to the ball fails. This still requires a very large force to do since it is integrated sort of like a rp. The only reason blue ballnutz is hard to clean is that you can't get a nut tool in contact with the slide easily to free it.

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By Cultivating Mass
Apr 1, 2013
Leading on the only "fair means" rack.
People love talking about what they know nothing about. Preferably, I'd like to add, if they have the reading comprehension skills of a bout-to-fail 3rd grader, or are Ellenor.

I caught my buddy on six consecutive whippers on the #1 as her only piece at the off-the-ground crux on a sandstone pitch.

They hold falls, they work fine after doing so, they are useful pro, Absolute, NEW!!!!!

Gettin' dumber by association.

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By Jack Ubaek
From tucson
Apr 1, 2013
Alana B
I've seen other forums that allow you to 'ignore' posts from particular users. Can this be done here?

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By Jason Blevins
From Burlington, NC
Apr 1, 2013
Me at Linville Gorge!!!
TomCaldwell wrote:
I like my ballnutz. As it has been said they fit in parallel sided cracks when the slimmest cams won't, and they even have better ratings. The major downfall is that they can be a pita to clean if weighted heavily. I would only recommend the three smallest sizes since above that cams cover that range. I had a friend who weighs over 200lbs take a 30 footer onto the smallest ballnutz available, blue #1, and it held. I couldn't clean it, but when it got colder, it came right out. I also would not recommend using them for free climbing on softer rock. In the SE we have lots of thin seams in quartzite and granite that I wouldn't leave these on the ground. The larger sizes will be fine in some of the harder sandstone.


The great Tom,I been climbing since I was a boy with father (25= years experience for me, plus 20 my Father climbeder before me!!! I love Ballnutz...I was just saying that they make one that a Copper coatted and in a Really Hard Fall, They can become in rock Permently, also have been told, that Long/Hard Falls in Certin Situations can Damage the lead wire, that is welded to the Ball(weaking it)? This was was back when my 1st Ballnut was a Lowe #2! I was told this by Climbers/ Makers of Ballnuts...That you can weaken they by Falls(they can even become Permament to Rock if placed right...If you go forcing a C.Tool in crack, bang it against the Ball/Wire it can bend and Bending Back(and force) Can/Will Weaking the Pro. at the wire/Ball(like any steel wire)...I know you you Can use them over and over Again, just was saying...that little steel wire connected to Ball, has to have a point of Retirement (because of Weaking!) after so many Fallsthe , Bending of Main Wire(wither reshaping to right sliding position or it get bent over time)...And 1 Fall, was meant to say if you place right and take a Hard Fall, you might not get it back in Safe Condition!!! ILove Ballnuts have 4 and just ordered my 5th...the #1 and study what was better Camp or Trango noticed no differences...Except that Trango #1 is listed on most sites as 4- 4.5Kn, but 7Kn on Trango(Maybe older Trang #1's are in the 4Kn range and new one's 7Kn???) Backcountry/Gear, Moosejaw and others...I'm not sure??? But Camp's Ballnut #1 was Rated at 7Kn on Camp and all other Sites? I have 1 size Lowe #2, 3 Trango's #3,4,5 and ordered the Camp #1... The #3 Trango Ballnut I got in new today drom backcountrygear.com, has xxxxx pattern on back(diff. but cool from odl Trang's...but my Brand New Trango #3 has alittle spit/gap on bottom of the nutball, were I would think it would have been melted to the steel, like at the top of the nutball??? All, my other nutball's Copper is melted to the steel all the way around??? last does anyony else get their Brand New Trango Ballnut, with Copper on the Back of Ballnut??? Thanks Tom...I hope people will stop Critizing others/Judging/Names/My Skill and Others...I was Climbing Way Before they Made BallNuts!!! I think There Great...but are they invencable or when do you Retire them??? Whaen Ball Breaks fron welded wire, is there a # of Falls??? Thanks to all Great/Good Hearted/Experienced Climbers, Hope, poeple try to Inform(with good info), not Critizes, with probably little info that someone told them or them think...I go By the Company's Advise(when possibable)...like Bluewater, Black Diamond, Omega Pacfic, Mad Rock, Ect.!!!THanks to Friendly/Helpful Climbers, your time, thoughts, advise, careing, experience!!! I wish you all Safe/Happy Climbing!!!!!!

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By Ray Pinpillage
From West Egg
Apr 1, 2013
Middle
Paragraphs are aid.

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By Jake Jones
From Richmond, VA
Apr 1, 2013
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after...
Uhhh, what?

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By scott cooney
From La Casa Taco
Apr 1, 2013
11th hour of the Sundial
Jake Jones wrote:
Uhhh, what?

+1

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By NorCalNomad
From San Francisco
Apr 1, 2013
Ray Pinpillage wrote:
Paragraphs are aid.


Dinner = now all over keyboard. hahahahahaha

I'm guessing the grammar is aid too then.

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By Stiles
From the Mountains
Apr 2, 2013
Rough
I have 2 1/2 sets of trangos and aid the shit out of them. When stuck l sling the trigger and funk on it till the ball retracts and it flies out. Have broken one #1 (held fall still) and one #5 (funking) where the ball is soldered on-Trango sent me two new ones free. Very durable, have held whippers, and are indispesible for aid. I trust all sizes to hold a fall, would equalize the smaller sizes if runout free climbing thin face

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By Healyje
Apr 2, 2013
girl40
Jason Blevins wrote:
The great Tom,I been climbing since I was a boy with father (25= years experience for me, plus 20 my Father climbeder before me!!! I love Ballnutz...I was just saying that they make one that a Copper coatted and in a Really Hard Fall, They can become in rock Permently, also have been told, that Long/Hard Falls in Certin Situations can Damage the lead wire, that is welded to the Ball(weaking it)? This was was back when my 1st Ballnut was a Lowe #2! I was told this by Climbers/ Makers of Ballnuts...That you can weaken they by Falls(they can even become Permament to Rock if placed right...If you go forcing a C.Tool in crack, bang it against the Ball/Wire it can bend and Bending Back(and force) Can/Will Weaking the Pro. at the wire/Ball(like any steel wire)...I know you you Can use them over and over Again, just was saying...that little steel wire connected to Ball, has to have a point of Retirement (because of Weaking!) after so many Fallsthe , Bending of Main Wire(wither reshaping to right sliding position or it get bent over time)...And 1 Fall, was meant to say if you place right and take a Hard Fall, you might not get it back in Safe Condition!!! ILove Ballnuts have 4 and just ordered my 5th...the #1 and study what was better Camp or Trango noticed no differences...Except that Trango #1 is listed on most sites as 4- 4.5Kn, but 7Kn on Trango(Maybe older Trang #1's are in the 4Kn range and new one's 7Kn???) Backcountry/Gear, Moosejaw and others...I'm not sure??? But Camp's Ballnut #1 was Rated at 7Kn on Camp and all other Sites? I have 1 size Lowe #2, 3 Trango's #3,4,5 and ordered the Camp #1... The #3 Trango Ballnut I got in new today drom backcountrygear.com, has xxxxx pattern on back(diff. but cool from odl Trang's...but my Brand New Trango #3 has alittle spit/gap on bottom of the nutball, were I would think it would have been melted to the steel, like at the top of the nutball??? All, my other nutball's Copper is melted to the steel all the way around??? last does anyony else get their Brand New Trango Ballnut, with Copper on the Back of Ballnut??? Thanks Tom...I hope people will stop Critizing others/Judging/Names/My Skill and Others...I was Climbing Way Before they Made BallNuts!!! I think There Great...but are they invencable or when do you Retire them??? Whaen Ball Breaks fron welded wire, is there a # of Falls??? Thanks to all Great/Good Hearted/Experienced Climbers, Hope, poeple try to Inform(with good info), not Critizes, with probably little info that someone told them or them think...I go By the Company's Advise(when possibable)...like Bluewater, Black Diamond, Omega Pacfic, Mad Rock, Ect.!!!THanks to Friendly/Helpful Climbers, your time, thoughts, advise, careing, experience!!! I wish you all Safe/Happy Climbing!!!!!!


What is the deal with the nearly incomprehensible writing? And again, most all of that information is wrong.

- Can they semi-weld if you don't know what you're doing? sure.
- Using them all the time since they came out how many have I welded? None.
- How many of my four sets have ever been damaged in any way relative to the ball/wire connection? None.
- How many have been damaged in anyway in 25 years of use (counting prototypes) at all despite multiple falls on nearly all of them? None.
- How many of all those Lowe / Byrne ball nuts do I worry about or would consider retiring? None.

And again, the old Lowe/Byrne are different from and superior to the Trango/Camp units and some are currently available up on ebay: Lowe / Byrne Ball Nuts on ebay

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By TomCaldwell
From Clemson, S.C.
Apr 2, 2013
Me on One Pitch Wonder at Whitesides.  Photo credi...
Jason, this is a discussion, aka a forum. My reply about it not welding was simply a different stance. There was no name calling or negative criticism by myself. I don't proclaim to be an all-knowing climber. I do like to participate in many discussions. So don't get so bent out of shape when someone has a different view point. Also, the paragraph you quoted from me wasn't even the one where I had a different view point about welding. Sorry if I disagree with you and your fathers extensive experience in the Piedmont. I also have a lot of experience with these pieces and have taken falls on them as well as seen others take massive falls on them. In my opinion, if my story above of friend falling doesn't "weld" the smallest ballnutz, hard to say what will in a free climbing scenario. From your previous post, it seems you have no experience with this piece falling on one or even placing one. It is good to listen to manufacturer's advice, but they will always be on the conservative side because it protect them from liability.

I agree with the others that well written paragraphs and sentences will help get your view across better. I can barely figure out what you are trying to get across to us in your last paragraph or the ones before that.

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By Pitty
From Marbach
Apr 2, 2013
My cool Elly....
According to one of the two suppliers, both come out of the same factory but one is certified, the other not...........
Find out which one is and which one is not..... :-)

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By Healyje
Apr 3, 2013
girl40
TomCaldwell wrote:
Jason, this is a discussion, aka a forum. My reply about it not welding was simply a different stance. There was no name calling or negative criticism by myself. I don't proclaim to be an all-knowing climber. I do like to participate in many discussions. So don't get so bent out of shape when someone has a different view point. Also, the paragraph you quoted from me wasn't even the one where I had a different view point about welding. Sorry if I disagree with you and your fathers extensive experience in the Piedmont. I also have a lot of experience with these pieces and have taken falls on them as well as seen others take massive falls on them. In my opinion, if my story above of friend falling doesn't "weld" the smallest ballnutz, hard to say what will in a free climbing scenario. From your previous post, it seems you have no experience with this piece falling on one or even placing one. It is good to listen to manufacturer's advice, but they will always be on the conservative side because it protect them from liability. I agree with the others that well written paragraphs and sentences will help get your view across better. I can barely figure out what you are trying to get across to us in your last paragraph or the ones before that.


In this case the manufacturers didn't really have much of a clue as to what they were doing when asked to reproduce the ball nuts and unfortunately didn't get enough guidance from folks who really knew how to use them. The net result being the Trango / Camp units are not nearly as good as the Lowe / Byrne models due to a number of design changes which impacted the general utility of the pieces. So, 'listening to the manufacturer' in this case really isn't the best course because they don't really know what they're talking about.

I submitted a number of design changes to bring them back in-line with the Lowe / Byrne units, but was told the Koreans don't really like making them to begin with as they are kind of a pain in the ass to make and if you upset the apple cart looking for design changes they might instead just quit making them all together as not worth the trouble.

All I do is free climb on mine and as I said have taken lots of falls on them. And the devil is in the details of the placement and millimeters might as well be miles relative to placement location within the topology of the crack, in where the ball sits in the track once the piece is set, and how much it's going to move while cinching once loaded.

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By reboot
From Westminster, CO
Apr 3, 2013
Healyje wrote:
the Trango / Camp units are not nearly as good as the Lowe / Byrne models due to a number of design changes which impacted the general utility of the pieces.

What are they exactly? I bought the Lowe balls from a previous poster on this thread so I'm all good for now. But a friend couldn't get one them out & I figured I'd just buy another (ended up going back next day & got it out), but if they are really irreplaceable I'd think twice next time.

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By Miike
From MA/CT border
Apr 3, 2013
my foot
and the troll show continues with some really well thought out and embarrassing replies.

god I love mtn proj!

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By Healyje
Apr 3, 2013
girl40
reboot wrote:
What are they exactly? I bought the Lowe balls from a previous poster on this thread so I'm all good for now. But a friend couldn't get one them out & I figured I'd just buy another (ended up going back next day & got it out), but if they are really irreplaceable I'd think twice next time.


- The 'paddle' is too short which in turn makes the ball 'track' too short

- The paddle is too wide which limits narrow placement slots

- The paddle is too thick at the top

- The top corners of the paddle are more squared off rather than rounded and so 'catch' a lot more when placing them.

- The handle to paddle distance is too short


All subtle and somewhat easy mistakes to make if you are just a manufacturer rather than someone very familiar with the pieces and how they work.

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By Cultivating Mass
Apr 7, 2013
Leading on the only "fair means" rack.
I can't read Blevins without getting dumber, quick. No thank you, sir. I won't be getting crosseyed on your behalf.

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By The Flying Dutchman
Nov 15, 2013
Locker wrote:
"Not recommended for aid as the ball part is soft and can deform easily."... I find that interesting. So you're saying that they're fine to fall on (which of course generates way more weight than ones body weight), but not good for body weight? I HAVE to be missing something here.



Because aiding requires that you weight the piece every time, there are other options for aiding such as hooks, beaks, etc, which will not be damaged. In free climbing, on the other hand, the gear is only weighted in the event of a fall. Destroying a head on a ball nut is worth not splattering on the ground, however it would be extremely expensive to repeatedly replace these pieces because they get worn out on aid routes. Aid just creates unnecessary abuse on these pieces

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By The Flying Dutchman
Nov 15, 2013
VaGenius wrote:
People love talking about what they know nothing about. Preferably, I'd like to add, if they have the reading comprehension skills of a bout-to-fail 3rd grader, or are Ellenor. I caught my buddy on six consecutive whippers on the #1 as her only piece at the off-the-ground crux on a sandstone pitch. They hold falls, they work fine after doing so, they are useful pro, Absolute, NEW!!!!! Gettin' dumber by association.


Please define " whipper" because I have broken larger pieces than a #1 ball nut with fewer falls. .

FLAG


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