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TR-Solo with 1 Microtraxion?
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By doak
From boulder, co
Feb 24, 2014
Drinking with Moses
If the button on the micro-traxion is accidentally pressed while the cam is retracted, then the device will be locked in the open position and not catch a fall. It's not a freak or improbable sequence of events.

I don't have one in front of me right now, so forgive me if I'm recalling incorrectly, but I'm refering to the little bump of metal on the cam that latches the device in the open position. I was under the impression that filing this tab was commonly done.

When used as a hauling device, it's certainly convenient to have a way to lock the cam open. For TR soloing, I'm not sure when you'd really want to have it locked open, pretty much all the time you want to be sure that it's not locked open.

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By mountain dog
Feb 24, 2014
Rock Canyon
doak wrote:
If the button on the micro-traxion is accidentally pressed while the cam is retracted, then the device will be locked in the open position and not catch a fall. It's not a freak or improbable sequence of events. I don't have one in front of me right now, so forgive me if I'm recalling incorrectly, but I'm refering to the little bump of metal on the cam that latches the device in the open position. I was under the impression that filing this tab was commonly done. When used as a hauling device, it's certainly convenient to have a way to lock the cam open. For TR soloing, I'm not sure when you'd really want to have it locked open, pretty much all the time you want to be sure that it's not locked open.


It's definitely a freak thing to happen. even in the open position, it will catch a fall, typically takes a foot or two though and i'd assume this is whats damaging peoples rope.

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By PosiDave
Feb 25, 2014
DoesNotCare wrote:
I went up and aid-soloed a crack line yesterday, using a gri-gri 2, then rope soloed the route 3 times. I tried to set up with a microtraxion and a Petzl Croll, but I couldn't get the Croll to self feed, so I ended up just using the Microtraxion. It's a little scary looking down at such a small chunk of metal, and extra scary when I fell onto it a few times! I talked to the guys at Wilson's they say you should follow Petzl's advice, but they rope solo with just a micro all the time, and these guys actually climb, unlike most of you. . .



how did you have the Croll setup?

1. I assume on a harness and a sling around your shoulder to keep it upright?
2. a chest harness?

If you add a little weight to the bottom of the rope it works well (I use two full 1L nalgenes)

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By Jackxc925
Feb 25, 2014
josh holmes wrote:
Be careful with the tibloc as a TR solo device. I have personally seen it core shot a rope from catching a TR fall on the twilight zone. Basically the device cut the sheath and the sheath slid down the core until it had bunched up enough to jam the whole mess. If you ask the "locals" in El Portal about their set up for their gym…uh, I mean the Cookie Cliff…they use one rope, two traxions or a traxion on the belay loop and a shunt or some other toothless ascender clipped to a chest harness. There is also an old guy there who climbs with just one mini and claims that it is the backup and his main source of safety is his climbing ability.


Yeah I wouldn't actually want to fall on it. It's just a backup and doesn't feel the force of a fall unless my primary ascender were to fail.

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By 5.samadhi
Feb 25, 2014
me
Jackxc925 wrote:
Yeah I wouldn't actually want to fall on it. It's just a backup and doesn't feel the force of a fall unless my primary ascender were to fail.

can you shoot a pic of your setup? I'd like to do a microtrax/tibloc backup with figure eights on a bite (not clipped to belay loop just there to jam).

Do the tibloc ever need fussing with or does it just slide effortlessly along the rope (unengaged backup)???

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By Jackxc925
Feb 28, 2014
5.samadhi wrote:
can you shoot a pic of your setup? I'd like to do a microtrax/tibloc backup with figure eights on a bite (not clipped to belay loop just there to jam). Do the tibloc ever need fussing with or does it just slide effortlessly along the rope (unengaged backup)???


I'm trying to envision that setup you're proposing. are you going to be tying backup knots under the micro or the tibloc? It sounds like you are combining methods in an effort to be redundant, but will only add complication to your climbing. Either backup with the second rope progress capture pulley, ala microtraction, or clip knots to your belay loop. Don't do both.

Yes, with the proper carabiner (locking round bar stock oval) and sling for extension, as well as the necessary weighting of your fixed lines at the bottom of the pitch, the tibloc will feed reasonably well.

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By 5.samadhi
Feb 28, 2014
me
Jackxc925 wrote:
I'm trying to envision that setup you're proposing. are you going to be tying backup knots under the micro or the tibloc? It sounds like you are combining methods in an effort to be redundant, but will only add complication to your climbing. Either backup with the second rope progress capture pulley, ala microtraction, or clip knots to your belay loop. Don't do both. Yes, with the proper carabiner (locking round bar stock oval) and sling for extension, as well as the necessary weighting of your fixed lines at the bottom of the pitch, the tibloc will feed reasonably well.

one line micro-trax attached with tibloc below it ON SAME LINE and once I'm off the deck a bit to account for rope stretch to the deck tie a backup eight (on the line NOT clipped to my harness just acting as a stopper in case the micro trax fails to engage so it will zoom me down to it and stop me from hitting the deck).

In this case with one line and a micro-trax I don't really think I even need the tibloc (it seems it would just mess up the feeding of the micro-trax).

I do this setup grigri with backup eight tied once or twice now but I hate manually feeding the grigri every few feet and I end up running out a loop in the hard moves (which is exactly where you want no slack!).

I am a 5.12 climber and I would be mainly TRing 11s and 12s when I am solo to get ready for redpoints. I'd stick this tactic to vert or slightly overhanging (no more than 10-15 degrees OH).

Does that make sense to you??? I've thought it through a bit and it seems fairly safe (assuming that I am prone to taking risks, hardcore drug use, unsafe sex, BASE jumping haha).

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By GhaMby
From Heaven
Feb 28, 2014
5.samadhi wrote:
one line micro-trax attached with tibloc below it ON SAME LINE and once I'm off the deck a bit to account for rope stretch to the deck tie a backup eight (on the line NOT clipped to my harness just acting as a stopper in case the micro trax fails to engage so it will zoom me down to it and stop me from hitting the deck). In this case with one line and a micro-trax I don't really think I even need the tibloc (it seems it would just mess up the feeding of the micro-trax). I do this setup grigri with backup eight tied once or twice now but I hate manually feeding the grigri every few feet and I end up running out a loop in the hard moves (which is exactly where you want no slack!). I am a 5.12 climber and I would be mainly TRing 11s and 12s when I am solo to get ready for redpoints. I'd stick this tactic to vert or slightly overhanging (no more than 10-15 degrees OH). Does that make sense to you??? I've thought it through a bit and it seems fairly safe (assuming that I am prone to taking risks, hardcore drug use, unsafe sex, BASE jumping haha).



I can't think of very many 11's or 12's that would allow me to tie a knot after I get off the ground, unless I hang on the rope. . .

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By 5.samadhi
Feb 28, 2014
me
DoesNotCare wrote:
I can't think of very many 11's or 12's that would allow me to tie a knot after I get off the ground, unless I hang on the rope. . .

egggggggggsactly bro you weight the microtrax while you back your ass up

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By GhaMby
From Heaven
Feb 28, 2014
5.samadhi wrote:
egggggggggsactly bro you weight the microtrax while you back your ass up



No thanks. . . I want to climb routes from bottom to top, how else are you going to build endurance?

I know quite a few guys that regularly rope solo with JUST a microtraxion, and have been doing so for years. If I'm going to back up the Micro I'll either figure out how to do so with a Croll or buy another micro.

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By seth williamson
Mar 28, 2014
If you need a back up line, ascender, and back up knots to feel secure, maybe you shouldn't be TR soloing

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By bearbreeder
Mar 28, 2014
seth williamson wrote:
If you need a back up line, ascender, and back up knots to feel secure, maybe you shouldn't be TR soloing


On April 14 I was climbing Hominey (5.8) on the Vittles Wall, a 25-foot crag near Hammond Pond. I’ve been climbing for five years, and although I have easily completed routes rated more difficult than this, I have struggled and fallen repeatedly on the crux bulge at the top of Hominey. Although I was without a partner, I had a few free hours that morning and was in the area, so I decided to take another shot at Hominey on self-belay. I was using a Petzl Basic on a fixed line. The Petzl Basic documentation warns that the cam that locks on the rope can be jammed by foreign material and fail to close. Petzl recommends tying backup knots on a redundant line. Having repeatedly fallen on my Basic over the previous year without mishap, I neglected to tie backup knots. On other occasions I had felt that spending time and energy tying these knots weakened me just as I needed strength for hard moves. This time I easily reached the crux but, as usual, struggled to get over it. Twice, I decided to downclimb to a rest just below the bulge. Both times I had to open the cam on the Basic to allow the rope to pass through the device. On the third attempt, I popped off my holds and heard the rope whip through the device without any resistance. I had enough time during the fall to realize that, although it was unlikely that I would die, this would be a serious accident.

I landed on my left foot. The impact felt incredibly violent, and I could tell immediately that I had broken my left tibial plateau badly. I stood on my right leg to disconnect myself from the rope, and lay down to call 911. I had taken a wilderness first-aid course two years ago, and realized that blood circulation was important for the survival of my leg, so I straightened it into a position of function. The Vittles Wall is a bit off the beaten path, so I was on the phone for 45 minutes while the Newton firefighters looked for me. Eventually the 911 dispatcher suggested I yell to help them locate me. Another climber heard me yell and led the firefighters in my direction. The Newton firefighters did an incredible job carrying me out on a board. I spent the next 52 days in Beth Israel Hospital in Boston. I’ve had 13 surgeries, two metal plates, too many screws to count, and a post-op infection for nearly a year. I might need knee replacement surgery.

Analysis

I’m not sure why the cam did not close. It’s possible that the tip of my belt managed to get into it and hold it open. It’s also possible that after the second downclimb I left it locked in the open position, which is possible with the Basic.

(Source: Streph Treadway, 44.) (Editor’s note: She mentioned not tying backup knots, but did not indicate whether they would have prevented grounding out. They may well have. Also of note is a recurring theme: the value of having taken a wilderness first-aid course. )


publications.americanalpineclu...

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By PosiDave
Mar 28, 2014
seth williamson wrote:
If you need a back up line, ascender, and back up knots to feel secure, maybe you shouldn't be TR soloing



Because you are using a product that isn't intended to be used alone? It is sorta like driving a car with no seat belt. You can do it (which I do), but you can't really have a reason it is "stupid" to follow the instructions considering that is how it is supposed to be rigged. just because you do it doesn't mean it is right or safe. does the extra 5 minutes to tie a few butterflys or $5 for a prussik really make a difference?

more accidents = more attention = more access issues.

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By JasonP
From Clemson, SC
Mar 29, 2014
me
I use a micro traxion on the belay loop and a Rope Man on a chest harness.
Wild Country Rope Man

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By Locker
From Yucca Valley, CA
Mar 29, 2014
...
"TR solo is super simple, and a lot of people over-think what is really a simple activity. Fix line, have redundant ropes - or don't, have redundant devices/methods of capture. The more unnecessary layers of complexity added to things the more likely you are going to die."


It's only simple if you know how to do it.

But in general, I agree!

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By Brian
From North Kingstown, RI
Mar 29, 2014
Eiger summit
One MiniTraxion

occasional backup knot underneath on same strand

file off bump so it can't lock open

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By Tom Nyce
From Flagstaff, AZ
Apr 4, 2014
Down low, before the Y and the Railroad couloirs separate.
There is a way to tie backup knots, quickly, with one hand, but it is hard to describe in print. Here is my attempt: Assume you have one hand on a high hold. Your free arm is hanging straight down. You wrap that free forearm around the rope and you grasp the rope with the fingertips. You pull a bight of rope straight up, through the loop that you created as you reached down. Put the bight in your mouth, while you compress the blob into a knot with that same hand. I don't clip the knot to myself, because I don't like the weight of the rope on me. I use the old soloist (rock exotica), and the knot can't go through that frame, even if the cam broke, or fell out somehow.
If I was using a device that didn't have such an indestructible housing, I'd buy a steel, screw lock, link from the hardware store and put it on my belay loop, with the rope running through it. There is no way my free hanging backup knots could pass through that.

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By jTaylor
Apr 5, 2014
been enjoying the micro traxion up top above my petzl basic.. Both which i scored off here on Mountain project for great prices and were each brand new. I don't tie back up knots... maybe if i was really high i would, but i feel pretty safe with two different devices...

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