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Tom's thumb CLOSURE

Original Post
Fletch · · Scottsdale · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 30
Partial closure. See photo Partial closure. See photo taken today.
lou · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 60

Hey Fletch.... yes.. there are Prairie falcons nesting on the north face!! Two years ago Peregrines tried to nest there, with unknown success. The Thumb gets immense climber traffic, as Im sure you know... a likely result would be failure in reproductive efforts of the falcons... due to chilled eggs.. and or young. While not on the Endangered Species List... they still receive federal protection ; which is why there are still falcon closures all over the West. Indian Creek, Yosemite, Tuolumne, Cochise, Granite Mt., City of Rocks, theFlatirons,,, just to name a few. As responsible users of the environment we need to respect and admire these falcons. Isolation canyon still has Peregrines trying to nest among all the climbers there....Manny should of mentioned this in his guide, as he was well aware, and ask climbers to refrain from the central main wall from Jan to June.... oh well....

hope all is well on your end!!

cheers... lou

ErikF · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 71
scottsdaleaz.gov/Assets/Pub…

Fletch,
You might want to revise the title of this thread to be Temporary Closure of Tom's Thumb North Face. The bird impacts are related to the climbs on the north face only and the rest of Tom's Thumb climbing remains open as described in the link.

Due to nesting Prairie Falcons, a temporary closure of the north face of Tom's Thumb has been ordered by the City of Scottsdale. Please see the document cited below. The only documented bird disturbance during the study period this Spring has been hikers in the vicinity so the ban includes hiking in the immediate closure area on the north side of Tom's Thumb, but that study conducted by birding experts recommended closure to climbing and rappelling as well consistent with known disturbance issues associated with raptors and climbing. The closure is temporary and will be lifted when the breeding season ends.

CLIMBERS: The climbs listed below are temporarily closed. Also, if you are on the top of Tom’s Thumb, please avoid the northern edge, and do not rappel down the north side. The other crags in the area are open – including Morrell’s Wall, Gardener’s Wall, Sven Slab, Sven Towers, etc. The climbing routes that are temporarily closed on Tom’s Thumb include:

• Ubangy Lips
• Pretty Girls Make Graves
• Sacred Datura Direct
• Sucubus
• Deep Freeze
• Garbanzo Bean Direct
• Garbanzo Bean
• Krueser’s Route

Feel free to PM me if you want more information.
Erik Filsinger

scottsdaleaz.gov/Assets/Pub…
lou · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 60

not quite true.... climbers have been documented climbing the north face with the falcons screaming in protest....
to suggest hikers are more of an impact is somewhat misleading...there is even an old mt. project post of a colorado climber rappelling into the active nest... his post was asking why the thumb didn't have a seasonal closure... as they do in colorado....

By Taylor Bentz
Feb 23, 2014
Hey all, I was on Sucubus (5.10a) today and when I was rapping down I saw a raptor fly out of the alcove on Sacred Datura Direct (5.9). Upon descent, I found indeed there is a raptor nest in Sacred Datura Direct.

I am relatively new to the Phoenix area, but I know every other crag I've climbed at in the US refrains from climbing while and where raptors are nesting. Although I am no expert, it seems to me that all routes right of Treiber's (5.7) and left of Great Compromise (5.9) should be avoided out of good climbing ethic for the time being.

Can somebody who actually knows what they're talking about here weigh in?

cheers... lou

ErikF · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 71

Hey Lou,
Not arguing that climbers don't have impacts. Please see revision to my post that states that "during the study period this spring"... I've been working with the City and MSC on this and want to be factual here.
I support the closure as implemented for the purposes you describe.
Erik

lou · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 60

copy that... coolio

lou

Manny Rangel · · PAYSON · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 4,788

Since falcons are no longer covered by the Endangered Species Act, which federal regulation are you claiming protects them?

I have only heard of one specific federal regulation that is a stretch when the ranger uses this regulation to claim that by climbing near a nest, we would be "taking" the birds. Pure BS.

Since there is no regulation specifically protecting them, that I have seen you cite, please produce one.

I think most climbers are like the guy you quoted, and like the folks that climb in Isolation. When I wrote the guide the birds were there and still are there. Each year they produce young and fly about if you get too close. There are no routes in their nesting site.

Talking to our fellow climbers must have gone out of style. Taking photos of all the bird encounters on the north face of Toms Thumb would go a long way to back up your claim of bird disturbances. Otherwise, it's all your allegations disturbing the peace.

lou · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 60

wow.... from the guy that asked me how to get rid of the Peregrines at iso... when we were putting up Alley lou and Semper fi.. and has told me it is b.s. to protect the falcons at Granite Mt.... is now so concerned that he knows the pair of falcons has successfully fledged young every year at iso... talk about b.s. and hypocrisy.... I might have to quote you... unless you have pics or video its just amusing info...

I won't bother citing why the are protected all over the country and at every major climbing crag... nor will I cite biology....you need to be honest and stop putting on airs... its okay to be old school just say it....

nor will get in a on line contest to see who can spew the most...

nor will I cite who didn't call who to talk before posting... Manny stop with the hypocrisy... it does not suit you....

lou

Manny Rangel · · PAYSON · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 4,788

You misread my comments, I am not nor have I been concerned with their fledging youmg. i stated a fact noted in Isolation and elsewhere that they live and breed in proximity to people. Falcons are fine without any special intervention. They are no longer an endangered species. But they do deserve protection and climbers, when aware of nests, do avoid such impacts, in my experience.

Your memory serves you well. As you can recall all the BS we've shared over the years and twist to suit your aims.

That's right, I didn't call you. Nor did youy call anyone else, ever. Unless you include Tonto NF and City of Scottsdale your amigos, you didn't bother to seek a solution in our community.

Manny Rangel · · PAYSON · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 4,788

O yeah, aren't you the one that actually hunts with falcons Lou? Don't you capture them and train them?

Is that why you are so fond of protecting their nests, so you can peacefully take the birds, Lou?

Please tell me this doesn't go back to a personal interest in falcons nesting on easily reached nests by you, Lou.

ErikF · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 71
Thank you, rock climbers!

The City of Scottsdale has now lifted the Temporary Closure on the north face of Tom's Thumb and wanted me to express their thanks to rock climber's for their support.
lloyd · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2011 · Points: 95

Did Lou manage to harvest one of the chicks for his falconry hobby?

Chris Jones · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 545

Prairie falcons are not listed. We should be cautious about another precedent to put temp closures on climbing areas for common species. Nearly every crag in the West would start being closed half of the year if this trend continues.
If you want to conserve the nest the best policy would have been a voluntary closure so that no legal precedent is set here. Climber's could have easily fought this and won.

Conservation Status
Not on the US Fish and Wildlife’s
Endangered or Threatened Species List.

ErikF · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 71

Chris,

In general I would agree, but there was a history and involvement to reach this point. The McDowell Sonoran Preserve is owned by the City of Scottsdale and governed pursuant to City Code, which gives the Preserve Director the authority to manage the Preserve consistent with preservation of flora and fauna as the priority mission. The City looked to the ecology specialists with the McDowell Sonoran Conservancy, the Not For Profit entity that assists in managing the Preserve, and Arizona Game and Fish Department raptor specialists for advice. Under the Preserve Ordinance, public use is secondary to ecological preservation. Climbing occurs subject to the rule of the Preserve Ordinance and climber input was incorporated into the ordinance and management plans.

The City's position is that under the Preserve Ordinance they have the regulatory authority for any such closure. In other words, they stated that they can make their own judgment calls about protecting flora and fauna in the Preserve without reference to federal designations. That being said and in this case, the City, MSC, and Az Game and Fish believe the Prairie Falcon worthy of protection. I believe that technically Prairie Falcons have the federal designation as "a Bird of Conservation Concern." Therefore, the long and short of it is that the City has the legal authority and they have at least some basis in ecological science.

The City did obtain input from climbers and made a reasonable effort to keep the closure narrow and specific to user actions that would negatively impact the breeding pair of falcons. The MSC and AZ Game and Fish conducted an impact monitoring. I would also point out that other recreational user impacts were noted and the north face was closed to hiking as well, so climbers were not singled out but were treated fairly. Climbing access to the east, south and west faces were continued.

I would want to withhold blanket acceptance of any land manager's policy making and climbers should monitor on a case by case basis, in my opinion. The merits of separate cases may indeed be different. I agree that we indeed need to stay vigilant and ask tough questions but in this case I think a reasonable standard was achieved.

PM me if you want more detail and background.
Erik

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Arizona & New Mexico
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