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To the Bowl-cut dude and crew on the 1st flatiron the afternoon of Memorial Day:
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May 30, 2011
Roadtrip!
Dear Mr. Bowl-Cut and your intrepid crew of mis-adventurers,

The actions of you and your crew were not only dangerous, but honestly, downright stupid. Seriously, please, get some qualified instruction before you go climb again outside, or anywhere for that matter, and endanger your life, the life of your friends, and the access of climbing in truly great areas.

I make no claims to being any kind of professional or "qualified professional" in anything, but I'd be more than willing to show you and your friends how to climb in a manner that will mitigate the some of the risks of climbing as well as how to not get killed and/or seriously injured.

Back story for anyone who would be interested:

My partner and I climbed the Direct Route on the 1st Flatiron and as we came back down to the base to get our packs we found a group of about 5 or 6 'climbers' scrambling around at the base of the route. All of them were in either tennis shoes or vibram five-fingers mostly a pretty decent distance off the deck (around the big dish 15' below the first bolt) however one guy was way up basically standing on top of the first eye bolt. None of them had helmets at all and I think I only saw two harnesses among the whole group.

My partner and I left to go take a look at the flatironette and when we came back the group had a black rope (I'm assuming static) clipped to the first eye-bolt w/ a draw. The first girl up was "climbing" by pulling herself up the rope, no harness or anything, while her "belayer" just kept the rope locked-off on the figure-eight device he was using to "belay."

On telling the group that they should seriously reconsider what they were doing a few separate times we were pretty much laughed off. At that point we decided it was worthless to try to intervene and left before things got ugly. As we packed out bags and rolled out one of the climbers was "leading" up to the next eye-bolt to make their "top-rope" taller. Keep in mind; this is still on the black static rope and being belayed with the figure-eight. I have no idea if he made it all the way, or if he did what they would have done if he made it up there because their rope was nowhere near long enough to top-rope from higher eye-bolt.

Not to mention this entire time tourists and hikers were walking up to the base to watch these "climbers." I'll leave the possible repercussions of that to the mp community.

So Mr. Bowl-cut, I know who you are and have seen you at both Miramont and the CSU gym in Fort Collins. Until you can show me you know what you're doing, I will be seriously discouraging my friends from climbing with you or anyone else in your little group of friends.

The offer still stands; I'm more than willing to help. In the meantime, please keep your antics in the gym where there's a padded floor.
ssimonson09
From Gladstone, OR
Joined Jun 9, 2010
11 points
May 31, 2011
My kinda simian
ssimonson09 wrote:
Dear Mr. Bowl-Cut and your intrepid crew of mis-adventurers, The actions of you and your crew were not only dangerous, but honestly, downright stupid. Seriously, please, get some qualified instruction before you go climb again outside, or anywhere for that matter, and endanger your life, the life of your friends, and the access of climbing in truly great areas. I make no claims to being any kind of professional or "qualified professional" in anything, but I'd be more than willing to show you and your friends how to climb in a manner that will mitigate the some of the risks of climbing as well as how to not get killed and/or seriously injured. Back story for anyone who would be interested: My partner and I climbed the Direct Route on the 1st Flatiron and as we came back down to the base to get our packs we found a group of about 5 or 6 'climbers' scrambling around at the base of the route. All of them were in either tennis shoes or vibram five-fingers mostly a pretty decent distance off the deck (around the big dish 15' below the first bolt) however one guy was way up basically standing on top of the first eye bolt. None of them had helmets at all and I think I only saw two harnesses among the whole group. My partner and I left to go take a look at the flatironette and when we came back the group had a black rope (I'm assuming static) clipped to the first eye-bolt w/ a draw. The first girl up was "climbing" by pulling herself up the rope, no harness or anything, while her "belayer" just kept the rope locked-off on the figure-eight device he was using to "belay." On telling the group that they should seriously reconsider what they were doing a few separate times we were pretty much laughed off. At that point we decided it was worthless to try to intervene and left before things got ugly. As we packed out bags and rolled out one of the climbers was "leading" up to the next eye-bolt to make their "top-rope" taller. Keep in mind; this is still on the black static rope and being belayed with the figure-eight. I have no idea if he made it all the way, or if he did what they would have done if he made it up there because their rope was nowhere near long enough to top-rope from higher eye-bolt. Not to mention this entire time tourists and hikers were walking up to the base to watch these "climbers." I'll leave the possible repercussions of that to the mp community. So Mr. Bowl-cut, I know who you are and have seen you at both Miramont and the CSU gym in Fort Collins. Until you can show me you know what you're doing, I will be seriously discouraging my friends from climbing with you or anyone else in your little group of friends. The offer still stands; I'm more than willing to help. In the meantime, please keep your antics in the gym where there's a padded floor.


Feel better?
Ryan Kelly
From work.
Joined Oct 10, 2006
3,262 points
May 31, 2011
P6 Bivy during the massive Rim Fire.
BWHAHAahahaHAhaAHAH!!!! mucci
From sf ca
Joined Jan 29, 2007
478 points
May 31, 2011
mucci wrote:
BWHAHAahahaHAhaAHAH!!!!

+1
Tim Zander
Joined Sep 27, 2010
12 points
May 31, 2011
If they laughed you off in person, why would any of them take you seriously now? I see crazy sh!t like that nearly every time I go up there, best you can do is probably to say what you already said (yesterday) and if it's not received, go about your business quickly and try not to witness the fatality. bag
Joined Jan 25, 2008
3 points
May 31, 2011
end of the day in the black canyon.
Sort of funny, have you ever read Climb: a history of rock climbing Colorado? Texans on vacation at Chautauqua made some pretty early ascents of the flatirons wearing street shoes (1920s style), ropes were considered unsportsmanlike, and descents were often made by sliding down the east faces. I also recall reading about Layton Kor cutting his teeth climbing on static rope.

Of course, climbing equipment has come along way since then, and with good reason. Ignorance of proper technique is no excuse for objectively unsafe behavior. I was just struck by the similarity of the situations, for what it's worth.
Aaron Martinuzzi
Joined Apr 15, 2008
1,585 points
May 31, 2011
Buds
You heard the man, nobody climbs w/ this fool unti...
You heard the man, nobody climbs w/ this fool until he receives the proper training.
Jonathan D.
From Portland, OR
Joined Sep 30, 2010
44 points
May 31, 2011
If you read the accident forum on this board a lot of the climbers that were hurt / killed was due to human error. I don't see Clear Creek Canyon or Boulder Canyon being shut down because of human error. I doubt the Flatirons would be any different.

That is good that you did try to point out what they are doing could be hazardous to their health.
wankel7
From Indiana
Joined Oct 4, 2010
17 points
May 31, 2011
Thank you so much for the public service announcement.

Now how about you mind your own fucking business?

If you don't like it...leave. If you don't wanna leave then just shut yer big yapper.

How I hate the safety police.
Yarp
Joined Jan 16, 2011
6 points
May 31, 2011
Coffee after freezing our asses off near James Pea...
Next time make some videos of the goofballs or alert someone else who can show up and make some good videos. The Internets need to see more! Stich
From Colorado Springs, Colorado
Joined Jan 1, 2001
1,496 points
May 31, 2011
Roadtrip!
Aaron Martinuzzi wrote:
Sort of funny, have you ever read Climb: a history of rock climbing Colorado? Texans on vacation at Chautauqua made some pretty early ascents of the flatirons wearing street shoes (1920s style), ropes were considered unsportsmanlike, and descents were often made by sliding down the east faces. I also recall reading about Layton Kor cutting his teeth climbing on static rope. Of course, climbing equipment has come along way since then, and with good reason. Ignorance of proper technique is no excuse for objectively unsafe behavior. I was just struck by the similarity of the situations, for what it's worth.


Didn't say it couldn't be done, just saying that by today's standards what they were doing was pretty stupid. People also used to drive cars with no seat-belts, crumple zones, or airbags.
ssimonson09
From Gladstone, OR
Joined Jun 9, 2010
11 points
May 31, 2011
I have never been to the flatirons, but it sounds like low angle slab by your description. If random people are running up in tennis shoes, then I doubt they were in serious danger. Pulling oneself up with a rope sounds like the kind of instinctive fun activity that inspires climbers in the first place. Most people have a built in sense of fear and risk and can tell when they are pushing their limits in natural activities like scrambling around on rocks. It's only more experienced climbers that have trained themselves to push away that fear because of confidence in their skills or knowledge about safety systems that they hopefully understand. DannyUncanny
From Vancouver
Joined Aug 27, 2010
78 points
May 31, 2011
climb naked with a Bowl-cut Grover
Joined Jul 12, 2010
326 points
May 31, 2011
You removed your helmet for that steezy profile picture? Unsafe. Hypocrite much? Boissal
From Small Lake, UT
Joined Aug 21, 2006
1,736 points
May 31, 2011
The Cathedral Spires in RMNP, left to right: Stile...
ssimonson09 wrote:
What would have happened if one of them had fallen and gotten seriously injured while 'lay' people were watching?.


The "lay" people would have watched the gene pool being cleaned up a bit. Knee-jerk reactions and more regulations for climbers help no one, especially climbers. IMO, you did the right thing when you a) tried to help & b) walked away when they didn't take you up on your offer.

--Marc
Marc H
From Lafayette, CO
Joined May 10, 2007
280 points
May 31, 2011
Coffee after freezing our asses off near James Pea...
Next time give each of them a copy of the passage from Dave Robert's book "On the Ridge of Life and Death" where he describes how he watched his friend cartwheel to his death on the First. That'll sober up those gooberheads.

YER GONNA DIE GODDAMMY!

Incidentally, it is perfectly fine with the park officials if people kill themselves in the process of having 'fun.' Nothing will be closed because of this.
Stich
From Colorado Springs, Colorado
Joined Jan 1, 2001
1,496 points
May 31, 2011
The Cathedral Spires in RMNP, left to right: Stile...
Stich wrote:
Incidentally, it is perfectly fine with the park officials if people kill themselves in the process of having 'fun.' Nothing will be closed because of this.


That's the way it should be, IMO. "Protecting people from themselves" is not in their job description.

--Marc
Marc H
From Lafayette, CO
Joined May 10, 2007
280 points
May 31, 2011
Roadtrip!
Stich wrote:
Next time give each of them a copy of the passage from Dave Robert's book "On the Ridge of Life and Death" where he describes how he watched his friend cartwheel to his death on the First. That'll sober up those gooberheads. YER GONNA DIE GODDAMMY! Incidentally, it is perfectly fine with the park officials if people kill themselves in the process of having 'fun.' Nothing will be closed because of this.



True, I guess I'm still in the mindset from the South that crags can be closed at any time at the whim of the landowner.
ssimonson09
From Gladstone, OR
Joined Jun 9, 2010
11 points
May 31, 2011
J TREE
Well at least you said something....but obviously they were not bright enough to appreciate the input....I've seen some nutty stuff up there too.....

Darwin usually wins these battles........
Jim Amidon
Joined Jun 12, 2001
927 points
May 31, 2011
Buenos Dias!
Yarp wrote:
Thank you so much for the public service announcement. Now how about you mind your own fucking business? If you don't like it...leave. If you don't wanna leave then just shut yer big yapper. How I hate the safety police.


Please put that in a laminated tag and wear it around your neck so none of us bothers you when you fuck up and hurt yourself.



God forgive anyone who actually shows some concern for a fellow human, no matter how stupid, by trying to help them not kill themselves.
-sp
From East-Coast
Joined May 25, 2007
80 points
May 31, 2011
..you tried to help, so your duty is served. But posting here about it is not helping anyone, except providing material to the MP comics and haters. Roots
From Tustin, CA
Joined Dec 15, 2010
26 points
May 31, 2011
lets all not forget the inner children that were assaulted in such an antagonistic manner; there may be serious reprocussions by trying to intervene which would need federal assistance and counseling for the next 7-10 years Buff Johnson
Joined Dec 19, 2005
1,499 points
May 31, 2011
Wall Street, Moab, UT
You know someone climbed one of the Flatirons in roller skates, right? You likely did the right thing by saying something... 'nuff said- if they didn't have harnesses or much else, then they probably aren't on here reading any of this. Peter Stokes
From Them Thar Hills
Joined Apr 30, 2009
152 points
May 31, 2011
Roof romp
-sp wrote:
Please put that in a laminated tag and wear it around your neck so none of us bothers you when you fuck up and hurt yourself. God forgive anyone who actually shows some concern for a fellow human, no matter how stupid, by trying to help them not kill themselves.


God has spoken and anyone left alive is already going to hell. Find some other deity to use good sir.


P.S. you did your civic duty now let natural selection take its course
Zach Pickard
From Riverside, California
Joined Oct 21, 2010
30 points
May 31, 2011
Yarp wrote:
Thank you so much for the public service announcement. Now how about you mind your own fucking business? If you don't like it...leave. If you don't wanna leave then just shut yer big yapper. How I hate the safety police.

Caustically stated and right on target.
matt davies
Joined Mar 9, 2007
25 points
May 31, 2011
Bocan
Ok I'm all for personal responsibility and minding your business etc...but really? Are we at a point where we can watch people pull people up a cliff that shouldn't be there and not say anything?

And yeah I think people are generally stupid..but to say that it's ok cuz it weeds out the gene pool is sick.

Some of you folks should feel ashamed by your casual indifference for caring for others and thinking it has to do with "personal rights".

I'd be willing to bet half of us would be dead if it wasn't for someone stepping in and saving our asses.

Dude I back you up for saying something. Same folks posting here will be the same ones posting on the daily camera calling them stupid when they die or get hurt. They don't sound like Kor...or climbers in general..If they are well, cool. People shouldn't get hurt just because they don't know better.

FYI I've helped folks that could have killed themselves and they were grateful. They were just to proud/ashamed to ask.
Scott McMahon
From Boulder, CO
Joined Feb 15, 2006
942 points


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