This post was originally a comment in Tingey's Terror

Recently a bolted belay station was added to the BASE of this climb...the start of the first pitch. For over 45 years climbers have belayed here without these convenience bolts. I think these are unnecessary, since you can hike off from here.

What's next? Bushwack crack? or the Green A? Do we need to see these bolts everywhere? Can't climbers just enjoy a few climbs in their natural state? Could the fellow who placed these, PLEASE REMOVE THEM?

This post was originally a comment in Tingey's Terror

Bsmoot..were these placed at the actual start to Tingy's or the beginning of Tarzan, which is what everyone calls the Tingy's start anyway. This stuff seriously has to stop. Sounds like this might be another convenience rap anchor to get clients down all the heavenly no star routes above?

This post was originally a comment in Tingey's Terror

Tingey's.

Before power drills, clients were taught something novel...downclimbing!

This post was originally a comment in Tingey's Terror

Looks like the definition of Wasatch standard trad rack needs to be updated to include a wrench and epoxy...
Fortunately it seems like more and more people are getting tired of this shit and are willing to fix the issue.

This post was originally a comment in Tingey's Terror

Can we take this fellow's drill away? Such bullshit.

This post was originally a comment in Tingey's Terror

Do you mean it won't stop just by being nice and ignoring it? Oh my heck! If action is taken that could be uncomfortable and confrontational and... mean.
Staunch, old school, traditional ethics are out the door when money is to be made.

This post was originally a comment in Tingey's Terror

Unfortunately, if its the same person we're all thinking it is, traditional ethics, morals, honesty, honor, and never having pulled a gun on your climbing partner for using the wrong belay commands is going to be way too much to ask for. Hopefully this mess gets cleaned up soon.

This post was originally a comment in Tingey's Terror

Tony, perhaps you could ask for community consensus before placing new bolts and anchors? I wouldn't normally suggest this, but you have quite the extensive history of what many feel are unnecessary bolts/ anchors. It seems you are further villifieing yourself with these secret hardware missions. Climbers tend to be self policing, but ultimately you shouldnt want to waste your time and money installing hardware that others will then spend time to remove, right? Why don't you speak up, and we can all offer some mediation on this pervasive issue. Hopefully you could win over some more friends with this approach, you certainly already have enough enemies.

This post was originally a comment in Tingey's Terror

Karma can be a real stinker Tony!! Wish you'd just move your sorry self back to the east where you belong...

This post was originally a comment in Tingey's Terror

Harsh Triz. How many friggin' bratwursts do I have to buy before people will actually get up and talk things out over a grill like they should?
I don't agree with these additional anchors, but being an internet asshole isnt gonna make them disappear. Unfortunately, pulling them out under the cover of night won't solve that either.
There doesn't seem to be much ambiguity over who is placing these (hell, they are probably signed and notarized) but specific motives are not stated as explicitly. "Climbing Ethics" are simply a consensus based on the opinions of lots of old guys. And I love them.
Anytime you want to hash things out, my backyard's open. Bolt-War Party! (No booze allowed would be a good idea. or crowbars.)

This post was originally a comment in Tingey's Terror

Maybe Zac... But, like "most" others around here, I'm getting sick and tired of this crap. In my limited time of being a climber, I'm seeing a scary trend happening... I'm all about preserving and not altering just to cater to my personal and/or business needs. If my climbing generation has to fight like this to preserve.. I hate to see what my kids will have to deal with. How am I supposed to instill the "golden-era" ways if the canyons are all grid bolted?

Hell I'm always down for a nice friendly debate over some brwats!!

Hello,

My name is Rob.

I have observed all types of behavior in many different places, and areas. I tried draw a line of "ethics" where it fitted my wants/needs, in turn disregarding others. I fought in Rock Canyon about a great deal of things, closely related to this topic of "useless" bolts.

Let people to what they may, don't use the bolts if you don't like them. If it is a guide using them, guiding has changed, people sue, let the guide use them. I see this so often in the Canyoning world, new bolts in canyons all the time, far more than in climbing. I choose not to use new bolts, that I don't agree with.

In the grand scheme of things, what we do as climbers to the rock in the next 500 years of "grid bolting" will be gone in 5,000.

Nature will sort it all out long after all of us throw our egos around over the internet.

Rob Schwarzmann

I sure as hell am naive. But those necessary punches will never get thrown over the internet or on ninja missions in the dark.

nor would an agreement take place (however unlikely that may be)

Keep your friends close...

www.mountainproject.com/v/northern_utah__idaho/west_slabs_in>>>