Tight and technical slot canyons

Just curious who else out there is into slot canyons.
What canyons have you been into and what they were like?
Story's welcome. Pics and beta more then welcome, if we can compile enough maybe we could convince the administrator to let us start posting them up!
Anyone ever climb routes in slot canyons? I know some of the more difficult ones require some technical climbing to get out of but I'm thinking more along the lines of if you went into a slot and saw an awesome line and came back to free/aid up it?

Hay Jason, Contact Rick Pratt. He's on the MP people list. Rick has a lot of experience in this arena.He is really cool person that I have had some mind expanding adventures with over the years.

I do a lot of canyoneering and mostly stick to stuff in Zion, due to that fact you have one of the best rescue teams in the nation there and you have anything you could ask for. If you want one that slots up and takes a lot of stemming and climbing, chambers in the Robbers Roost Area is amazing.

If you are trying to get into it, I have done most of the canyons in Zion and dozens around Utah and Arizona. I have too much info to just post, if you have any questions about some canyons contact me. I don't like canyoneering but it is an excellent off day activity.

Robert Schwarzmann

P.S. I also teach some Classes on how to set up Canyoneering anchors and self rescue.

I've spent some time doing canyoneering and would love to do more. Maybe an area here could be made to chat about it. I feel like there must be others here that would be interested.

Salome Jug & Lower Waterholes in AZ. Spry, Keyhole, Behunin, Pine Creek all in Zion. Rather like extreme hiking, but lots of fun. I'd be up for more.

I have done Pine Creek, Orderville, The Subway and some of Echo. I would still like to do Imlay and just about any others really.

I have heard that there is a slot in Boulder Canyon. Anyone done it? Where can I find info on it.

I'd be up for doing technical slots.

Canyoneering is a wonderful, exciting and complex activity that I've only dabbled in. I'm too old, crippled and busy to engage much further in it than I do. I guess you could call me a canyoneering n00b.

May I respectfully suggest that you take this thread idea over to canyoneeringusa.com? It's a site run by Tom Jones of JRAT fame and now, Imlay Ganyon Gear. It's a site similar to this one but dedicated to the sport of Canyoneering. It has all the stuff: route beta, gear advice, forums and chats, etc. It would be nice if they had a route database like the one here, though.

Let's keep this a climbing site.

Mal

Route databases with rigging info for canyoneering would be pretty useful, for sure. They tried that for mountain biking on that sister site for summitpost, but it got overrun by the spammers.

If you want an exciting and challenging canyon, Alcatraz Canyon was awesome. We just did Moonshine wash, that was awesome too, but it wasn't nearly that complicated or tight as Alcatraz. Check out this link:

climb-utah.com/Roost/alcatr…

This site is awesome for Canyoneering info!!!

Malcolm Daly wrote:May I respectfully suggest that you take this thread idea over to canyoneeringusa.com? It's a site run by Tom Jones of JRAT fame and now, Imlay Ganyon Gear. It's a site similar to this one but dedicated to the sport of Canyoneering. It has all the stuff: route beta, gear advice, forums and chats, etc.

Tom's site doesn't have a forum or "chats". He suggests the yahoo egroup "canyons" for a forum.

There's also the ACA site:

www.canyoneering.net

And the bogley site which has a canyoneering forum.

www.bogley.com

None of those sites have a real functional user database for canyon info but they are good places to solicit for current conditions.

Summitpost has a bunch of canyon beta. Ditto climb-utah mentioned above. Tom's site (canyoneeringusa) has the best info for specific canyon beta, for the routes he's put in there. Heckuva resource.

Cheers,

-Brian in SLC
(ex-canyoneer ha ha)

Tim Kline wrote:If you want an exciting and challenging canyon, Alcatraz Canyon was awesome. We just did Moonshine wash, that was awesome too, but it wasn't nearly that complicated or tight as Alcatraz. Check out this link: climb-utah.com/Roost/alcatr… This site is awesome for Canyoneering info!!!

I second that, Alcatraz is the shit! 60m single strand rap off the bumper of your car then super tight meanders, technical downclimbs and if there's water, some gnar potholes extractions. Plus the escape is quite the course in sandstone navigation.
Tim, what did you think of moonshine? Did you find the dryfall climb a bit tough?
The roost and north wash are the place to be for tight stuff.

Timely post. We just returned from some slots in North Wash this past weekend. Great time! I've been through Alcatraz a couple of times and another tight one in the Roost called Chambers in the past but we just descended Shenanigans (middle fork of Butler Canyons west fork) in the North Wash area and it is probably the tightest I've been through! In one section, the buckle on my harness was just enough to keep me from passing through the slot so I had to undo it. It wasn't super technical but it was tight and dark! Admittedly, I'm not a serious canyoneer and don't do any super difficult canyons but I enjoy the outings I've done.

I do think canyoneering is covered well enough on other sites such as canyoneeringusa.com, climb-utah.com and the Yahoo canyoneering group but it is fun to discuss it here as many aspects of climbing are very helpful in the canyons.

The dryfall wasn't even near dry when we went!! We had 13 People with us and 3 dogs!! It was REALLY tough because of these variables. The canyon was AWESOME though!! If you have small groups it's definitely a good canyon, but I wouldn't do it with dogs again... we ended up having to do a bucket brigade at the top of the dryfall where there were all of those boulders. That last section was really fun though, with all the water, I have never done a canyon with water before!!

@QUOTE\{Boissal} I second that, Alcatraz is the shit! 60m single strand rap off the bumper of your car then super tight meanders, technical downclimbs and if there's water, some gnar potholes extractions. Plus the escape is quite the course in sandstone navigation. Tim, what did you think of moonshine? Did you find the dryfall climb a bit tough? The roost and north wash are the place to be for tight stuff. -QUOTE@

@QUOTE\{Sorden}According to my Navajo guide / friend there are at least four routes up and out of Lower Antelope (Corkscrew) Canyon outside of Page, AZ. It's probably the most photographed (published) slot canyon in the world. I've free-soloed all four of them, about 60 feet average, to the surface. My friend, Poncho (God bless ya son, wherever ya are!) took a group of foreign tourists through this very popular and picturesque slot canyon in the summer of 1997. I'd been in there with my own group three days prior while it was raining. Poncho's entire group of 12, including two others not in his group, died in that canyon when a flash flood swept through. Poncho held on to two young French girls as long as he could until they were ripped away from him. He was found thirty feet up on a ledge; naked, bruised and bloody, blinded by the silt in his eyes, alone but alive.-QUOTE@I read about that and heard from locals up there just after it happened. Seems Poncho didn't listen to warnings to stay out of the canyon from several people, including gringos and local Native Americans warning about the flash flood danger that day. I wonder if Poncho has a guilty conscience. Maybe he should have listened to the warnings. How does he feel about being responsible for 12 people's deaths?

Seems Poncho didn't listen to warnings to stay out of the canyon from several people, including gringos and local Native Americans warning about the flash flood danger that day. I wonder if Poncho has a guilty conscience. Maybe he should have listened to the warnings. How does he feel about being responsible for 12 people's deaths? And you admit to going in there while it was raining too. What are you, an idiot or just a fool?

Tim Kline wrote:The dryfall wasn't even near dry when we went!! We had 13 People with us and 3 dogs!! It was REALLY tough because of these variables. The canyon was AWESOME though!! If you have small groups it's definitely a good canyon, but I wouldn't do it with dogs again... we ended up having to do a bucket brigade at the top of the dryfall where there were all of those boulders. That last section was really fun though, with all the water, I have never done a canyon with water before!!

Yeah the dryfall is quite sandbagged and scary, I had to swim to the base and solo 25' of mossy wet sandstone to get up. If you don't have a tagline you're seriously screwed at that point, especially with 13 people. We found some gnarly potholes after that and one of them almost kept me. Did you see the sheep bridge? My partner crossed it by mistake a couple of years ago, he's still shaken to this day.
When I did it we missed the exit and had to climb out then navigate the mesa in the dark with a compass, ended up looking for our footprints to select the right exit drainage.
3Canyon is close by and absolutely amazing. More like hiking in Zion that the Roost. You end up at the mouth overlooking the Green, then backtrack and climb about 2 long pitches of 5.easy slabs with a 5.6 crux. And running into this always cracks me up. Redefines bomber anchor...

Boissal wrote: Yeah the dryfall is quite sandbagged and scary, I had to swim to the base and solo 25' of mossy wet sandstone to get up. If you don't have a tagline you're seriously screwed at that point, especially with 13 people. We found some gnarly potholes after that and one of them almost kept me. Did you see the sheep bridge? My partner crossed it by mistake a couple of years ago, he's still shaken to this day. When I did it we missed the exit and had to climb out then navigate the mesa in the dark with a compass, ended up looking for our footprints to select the right exit drainage. 3Canyon is close by and absolutely amazing. More like hiking in Zion that the Roost. You end up at the mouth overlooking the Green, then backtrack and climb about 2 long pitches of 5.easy slabs with a 5.6 crux. And running into this always cracks me up. Redefines bomber anchor...

We had one person go up the dry fall first, he anchored in some webbing and we used it as a tagline. But after getting all of that damn clay on the falls, it was so difficult. I ended up staying at the bottom to help people across the pothole (cold... bbrrrrrr) And so I was the last one up... it sucked a bit. We weren't prepared for water, which was our stupidity. But it wasn't too bad. We made were fortunate to have a couple of GPS' with us, so we didn't have a problem navigating back. We seen the sheep bridge from the bottom of the canyon but not from the top. We ended up bypassing it due to time. We made it back to camp just in time to watch sunset. The canyon would have been a lot easier had we not brought our dogs. But we made it through without escape!!!

My canyoneering experiences so far consist of these canyons:
1.Not mind bender(Robbers Roost), I was just tagging along, my first slot canyon.
2.Old woman's wash(SRSwell), day after mind bender, long walk for not much pay off.
3.Midevil chamber(Moab), lame except the raps. Simul rapped morning glory arch. I was leading the trip for this one.
4.The high spur. Awesome! Im going to tell a full story about that day in a second.
5.Alcatraz. Also cool, but more like caving.

Not mind bender is what hooked me, the bueaty of a slot is unmatched. Fortunately there was some technical aspects to this slot so I learned some things. It ended in a big free hanging rap. probly atleast 120' free hanging. The anchor was a bunch of webbing comming out of the ground! A burried deadman or something of the sort, I got to go first! AWESOME!

So last memorial day weekend I convinced a couple friends to check the scene out, 1 was my main climbing partner and another was a sportish climber, and another gumby non climber. I was the only one that had ever been in a slot so we started with midevil chamber. nothing worth noting really. The next day we were waking up at the roost (I was up around sun up). We dropped into the high spur pretty early and once past some of the first obstacles we split some mushrooms. We coutinued down the canyon in awe as we passed through slot after slot and they kept getting more aesthetic and longer and tighter. Some minor obsticles and tons of bueaty is what it mostly consisted of. I don't think I even had to use a hand line or short rope(others in the group did though). Just the rap at the end.

We got out in good time and found the second car at the shuttle point, we were at alcatraz at about 4:00-4:30. We decided to drop in despite the lack of time but based on how well we did with the high spur we figured we would be alright. Our biggest problem with this slot was too much gear. It was like torture at times. It was mostly dry except for the deep dark spots had a little moisture. The problem was dragging the pack behind you was a pain and at times not exactly feasable. For some reason the guide mis-lead us to bring our 60M with us through the canyon with a short rope, light rack, and all kinds of other BS. The canyon was a blast with alot of fun downclimbs and steming/bridging oppertunitys, even some chimneying. I didn't think it was extremely technical though but would understand if it was wet it would be harder). We raced through the canyon with the biggest challange being shuttleing the packs through constrictions in the deep dark bowels of the slot. We had to stratigically place people to bridge tight sections and pass the packs above! It got tiring and clostraphobic racing the sun. It seemed more like caving at times with headlamps in full force. We got out of the slot with a little light to burn but soon lost it by taking a wrong turn up a drainage, we ran back down and found the trail to the rim and about reached the rim as it got dark. This left us some night time orienteering and navigation. It was scary but I had atleast 1 for sure land mark. It wasn't over yet by any means. We took our time and safely navigated in the dark out of the last little section to flat top rim walk back to the car. At one point we weren't exactly sure what way was the exit so it took some planning, we stopped and rested and put on warm clothes. I explained the obvious risks of getting lost out here at night and falling off a cliff etc. We can sleep here till first light and find our way out with light or keep fighting and taking saftey measures and get out of here right now if me manage to not get lost in the process. It was agreed, we weren't sleeping there so off we went. Get back to the car at like 11:00-11:30.
EPIC! I will never forget that day, it will probly remain a top 10 memmory in my life.

Here is a link to my photobucket album from that trip, all the photos are in reverse order for the most part(end of alcatraz on page 1 and the begining of midevil chamber page 9)
s177.photobucket.com/albums…

Sorden wrote: And yet the Navajo still took his entrance fee. I'm certain my old friend Poncho feels unimaginable guilt, remorse and regret for guiding those people to their deaths. We were both very young and didn't know any better. I've been known to act like both and idiot and a fool. How 'bout you Tradster?

So just because they took a fee, he still went in after being warned more than once. I've done some dumb things in my life, but nothing like going into a slot canyon during flash flood danger. And nope, never have been responsible for the death's of other people due to anything negligent I've done. Poncho should have died that day along with his clients. I hear that he still guides. That's a travesty. Your comments lead me to believe you are several bricks shy of a full load.

Wow, it seems to me that if there were several legitimate warnings, and they proceeded with a guide, whom is suppose to access dangers and protect the clients, then Pancho should have been tried for negligence, and or manslaughter, and should be in jail.

Definitely not guiding.

Canyoneering and climbing are inherently dangerous activities. In the case of this particular issue, it could have been raining miles away and caused this flood. I agree that a weather check should have been completed and that they should have avoided going into this canyon. I think it's imperative that before you ever enter a canyon that you are 100% certain you are not going to have weather issues. I feel bad for both Poncho and the 12 people that died. I'm sure that the guilt and the physical problems Poncho has as a result of this incident is plenty punishment enough. But this is a perfect example of why we who climb and canyoneer should learn from this incident and not repeat these mistakes. If you are new to canyoneering take these 2 pieces of advise.

1.) Check the weather before you go, if there is even a 30% chance of precipitation... don't risk it. You can do the canyon another time.

2.) If you've never been in a canyon, go with somebody who has... I found things in these canyons that I totally didn't expect and team work is not an option in a canyon, it's a requirement.

I'm not expert canyoneer by far, but the people I've gone with are the closest thing to it I believe, and the three things that we continually practice is preperation, caution and teamwork.