thoughts on rigging a single line rappel.

I usually use a GriGri2 for just about everything, but when rappelling on a single line, I wanted some other thoughts on rigging the blocking biner and knot. I know what you do depend greatly on the conditions of the anchor. but for arguments sake lets say that these are Ideal Conditions. That is, you are rappelling from a two bolt anchor with chains and Rappel ring or CE/UIAA rated Quicklink.

Personally I have been tying a Clove hitch through the inside of a large quick link, then backing it up with a pair of overhands placed snugly against the Clove hitch. the overhands are also there provide a large surface area knot in case the firstClove hitched link slips or fails. I have had now problems. but it only takes one failure to fall.

thoughts and suggestions?

Forget the backups. As long as the biner you're using for the clove is bigger than the rap ring (or whatever) that the rope is through, you're just fine.

I thought most people just tied a figure 8 on a bight to one side of the rope then used a locker to clip to the opposite side of the rope, the side you are rappelling down. The figure 8 jams against the rings and the locker connected to the other side makes it impossible to pull through.

The reason for using a clove-hitched blocking link rather than a figure-eight knot is that, after being rappelled on, the figure-eight knot can really hard to untie. If the blocking link needs to be backed up, one can still use an overhand knot and biner clipped to the primary strand though.

the reason I use the link is because I don't like dropping a carabiner. but yes thank for the info. on the clove hitch, I dont need to sung a knot up to it? cant they slip under low loads? or am I just being paranoid?

you can use a friction "knot" on the tree. make a figure eight on a bight, then wrap the rope around the tree about 5-7 times, then carabiner the eight to the rope going down and that way you avoid tightening the 8.

if rapping from a tree... Just re-read your post.

t

I've been canyoneering for 2 years now and I use the clove-hitch (with no backups) almost exclusively. I'll only use a backup (overhand knot clipped to a biner and clipped to the anchors) if I'm worried about someone confusing which side to rap on. After a hundred canyons and at least a thousand rappels, I've never had a problem with the clove hitch slipping. Talk to any canyoneer (for whom rappels are more common and more comfortable than for climbers) and they'll tell you the same thing.

Rob Warden wrote:the reason I use the link is because I don't like dropping a carabiner. but yes thank for the info. on the clove hitch, I dont need to sung a knot up to it? cant they slip under low loads? or am I just being paranoid?

The carabiner never falls as the knot always reaches you before the other end of the rope reaches the top anchor.

I agree with Austin. I have been canyoneering for over four years and the method of single strand rappelling is almost always a biner block with a clove hitch. This method is mainly used because of wet canyons and having to adjust the rope to the height of the water so that the rest of the group drops off the end of the rope without having to unclip while treading water.

The old school mountaineering equivalent is the reepschnur which uses a figure eight as the block. Rock and Ice magazine has a writeup on it:
rockandice.com/articles/how…

The clove hitched biner method works great for canyoneering. I just did a tech canyon last weekend with a friend who has the technique dialed. He flakes the rope in to his pack and we drop out only enough rope for the rappel and to rig the biner block. He rappels last with the pack on his back feeding out more rope as he descends (this becomes the pull down side). He lands and we pull the rope, flaking it back in to his pack. It saves you from having to coil the rope after the rappels.

dorseyec wrote:I thought most people just tied a figure 8 on a bight to one side of the rope then used a locker to clip to the opposite side of the rope, the side you are rappelling down. The figure 8 jams against the rings and the locker connected to the other side makes it impossible to pull through.

That's what I do, just rap off a figure eight knot.

I've rapped off a clove hitch on a biner spine a bunch, too, but, I find a weighted clove hitch a bit harder to undo.

Gri Gri rappel from figure eight knot

Brian, I don't like to be a nit pick but please be careful with that setup. Someone died recently at Yosemite when the knot pulled through a rap ring. See the link below for the news and some constructive discussion.

supertopo.com/climbing/thre…

I use the same system as Brian in SLC with one exception. Clipping a biner from the bight to the rap side is a quick and easy back up to prevent the knot pulling through the anchor like the case Brad W mentioned. As you pull the rope the tail of the rap side will simply pull through the biner then pull through the anchor (Might have to set it up on the ground to better see it). Also, when you're pulling the rope you will usually be able to unclip the biner and untie the 8 before the rope pulls through the anchor. Only when the rap ends near the end of your rope will the biner fall around 15 ft. This makes carrying a designated biner for rapping up to your discretion.

alpine butterfly before the knot on the loose strand , then locker through it clipping the load strand ...

from

pg 186 ...

Here's another way that works great. Similar to Brians method but safer.

http://www.splitterchoss.com/2012/03/01/tech-tip-rappelling-with-a-grigri-or-cinch-or-what-have-you/

bearbreeder wrote:alpine butterfly before the knot on the loose strand , then locker through it clipping the load strand ... from pg 186 ...

Does anyone use a set-up like this with the butterfly near the end of the rope, then use a small diameter cord to pull down the rope? Seems like it might be a good way to do longer rappels without having to carry two ropes.

Groch wrote: Does anyone use a set-up like this with the butterfly near the end of the rope, then use a small diameter cord to pull down the rope? Seems like it might be a good way to do longer rappels without having to carry two ropes.

Yes. And I agree with the posters above who said to clip a biner from the knot to the load strand. The risk/consequences of the knot pulling through the ring is too high IMO.

Groch wrote: Does anyone use a set-up like this with the butterfly near the end of the rope, then use a small diameter cord to pull down the rope? Seems like it might be a good way to do longer rappels without having to carry two ropes.

yes ... cooley and houston direcly recommend that method as they indicate that the butterfly is less likely to get stuck in the chains/rings ... my thought is that the butterfly may also be less likely to get stuck at the edge as well, but thats just my observation

just to add .... petzl shows you what they recommend

petzl.com/en/outdoor/grigri…

Nathan Scherneck wrote:The clove hitched biner method works great for canyoneering. I just did a tech canyon last weekend with a friend who has the technique dialed. He flakes the rope in to his pack and we drop out only enough rope for the rappel and to rig the biner block. He rappels last with the pack on his back feeding out more rope as he descends (this becomes the pull down side). He lands and we pull the rope, flaking it back in to his pack. It saves you from having to coil the rope after the rappels.

I used to use the clove hitch method that canyoneers use but I had a clove hitch pop and come undone from the biner once. I had a backup so it didn't end badly but it was a good scare. After that I started using the method that uses an 8 or Yosemite 8, as described by Petzl.

I like tagging a small pull line to pull the rope down instead of rapping on it. You can carry as small of a line as you want as long as you're not worried about having to pull hard on a skinny line. Particularly when I'm TR rope soloing I'll use a 100 foot static to do laps and then trail a small tag line to pull the rope once I'm done and ready to rappel.

Brian in SLC wrote: That's what I do, just rap off a figure eight knot. I've rapped off a clove hitch on a biner spine a bunch, too, but, I find a weighted clove hitch a bit harder to undo.

I also use a biner like the petzl picture shows. It takes less than 5 seconds and the consequences of failure here is usually death.... Just not worth it to me especially when someone just died in yosemite doing something similar. Im sure you already know that BrianinSLC so what is your reasoning for skipping the biner part? Just curious...

DexterRutecki wrote: Im sure you already know that BrianinSLC so what is your reasoning for skipping the biner part? Just curious...

Sometimes I do, kinda depends on which rope I'm using, and, which ring.

That knot is way bigger than the ring. Probably my second or third use of that system that day (not to mention a number of days in the recent past) and adding a biner back up to clip the load strand tends to make the pull a fair bit harder, but, more importantly to me, was it seems to be more likely to dislodge any loose rock depending on the terrain.

If my rappel line is straight down and clear, no loose rock, then a back up can make sense. But, if the rappel line is off to the side, the pull line (usually with me, clipped through a sling so I can keep track of it) tied into the load strand can make for a bit more of a broom sweep type action on a cliff face and tends to knock stuff down.

But, bottom line (ha ha) for me, is that I've used that system a bunch and I know the rope can't pull through. If I thought the rope would pull through, then, I wouldn't rappel single strand from the Gri Gri that way. I load that rig up prior to launch, to be sure it's set correctly. I hear folks rapping off the wrong side fairly often. A biner back up doesn't help.

What I do prior to launch is to clip that loop into the anchor, load up, double, triple check, then go live. Probably the most useful feature of that knot block is having a loop to clip either into the anchor, or, back into the loaded strand. In some cases, following the load strand on the pull is preferable, so, if I know that's the case, clipping back in works well.

Its a great back up, to be sure, to clip the loop back into the loaded side of the rope.