Theory on Mallory and Irvine

The photographs of Mallory show rope fixed to his waist that seems out of place. Why would he have had rope fixed to his waist in the area he was found, there's no climbing near there. I have a theory. I think Mallory fell, possibly on Hillary's Step, and Irvine had attempted to short-rope /carry him down from there. I think with Mallory's head wound it wasn't long before he saccamb to his injuries and died. Then when Irvine realized Mallory was dead, he unhitched him from himself and attempted to descend alone. I think Irvine's body was found lower, closer to the high camp of that time. Just my thoughts....such an interesting part of history.

Yes Irvine was found, his body that is. Have you ever read Ghosts of Everest?

Lisa Gignac wrote:Yes Irvine was found, his body that is. Have you ever read Ghosts of Everest?

Really? Maybe you should let Conrad Anker and Jake Norton know....

:-)

Martha Perantoni wrote: Really? Maybe you should let Conrad Anker and Jake Norton know.... :-)

Or his family..

Oops, I meant Mallory. Mallory was found and they have theories on the possibility of Irvine having been previously found by other expeditions, but they haven't confirmed a finding of Irvine. My mistake in typing, Mallory was the one found. I'm not trying to pick a fight, I just was curious about openly discussing the topic. I'm very passionate about Everest and climbing in general.

I would love to believe they summited, but I suspect they did not. None the less those guys had guts! To climb at 8000 meters with a wool sports jacket.... I still whine about the cold ice climbing with all my hi-tec gear!

Piles of books on this topic fill the shelves of my climbing library. It is a fascintating subject. Also a great one for beer induced arguments! Lisa, let's get together and form an expedition to go check it out next year. And yeah, Conrad and the boys can come with us too just in case we need them.

Ah here's a subject close to my heart, so count me in on the expedition. It's a great mystery - in exploration one of the greatest.

Incorrect, this expedition was on the north side of Everest not the South - nowhere near the Hillary Step.

Correct, Mallory had a length of rope tied around his waist, which seemingly had broken during a fall from higher up, judging by the extent of his injuries (according to those who found him) he hadn't fallen a great distance. Hemp ropes parting during a fall were not uncommon back then. I'm not sure how long the rope tied around Mallory's waist was, or if that could give any clues as to how the accident occurred. My assumption is that they were descending. Was he behind Irvine when he fell, falling past him? Was he leading down first. Was Irvine pulled off too? Or did he attempt to arrest the fall only to witness the rope fail leaving him there to find his own way back to camp? Mallory was found quite low down, so it seems they were close to high camp when the accident happened. Is Irvine up there somewhere too, bivouaced or succumbed after the accident? Or below Mallory somewhere having fallen?

I could go on; obviously too many questions to be able to form a reasonable theory.

I can't imagine they reached the summit, but they say he had his goggles in his pocket, perhaps it was dark, perhaps they a very long day - climbing up the north ridge (Odell seeing them perhaps on the third step) and, not wanting to reverse the Second Step, descending the Norton (ie. Great) Couloir which would find them kind of where the accident happened, close above where they found Mallory.

erikwellborn wrote:..... To climb at 8000 meters with a wool sports jacket....

So far I haven't found any foo foo material that beat the wool. Those sheep got it going on

classic.mountainzone.com/ev…

The photo I found online doesn't really show the rope as well as the photo on the book Ghosts of Everest. You're correct the rope is broken but the location where they found the body doesn't have anywhere where one would be climbing with fixed ropes or top roping. He had a gaping head wound, and at those heights, how does one walk that distance with a gaping head wound. I think his friend Irvine tried to carry him down the mountain. I think his friend in doing so utilized whatever energy stores Irvine still had left in doing so and then later died as a result, too. Still, I'm a romantic, and it's nice to think a climber would help another climber on Everest, even though it really is every man and woman for themself on that peak. Just my thoughts...I found an interesting link on the topic as well. I can't wait to climb Rainier, it seems too long a time to wait. I'm anxious and unsettled waiting to climb a peak again.

Chris Owen wrote:Ah here's a subject close to my heart, so count me in on the expedition. It's a great mystery - in exploration one of the greatest. Incorrect, this expedition was on the north side of Everest not the South - nowhere near the Hillary Step. Correct, Mallory had a length of rope tied around his waist, which seemingly had broken during a fall from higher up, judging by the extent of his injuries (according to those who found him) he hadn't fallen a great distance. Hemp ropes parting during a fall were not uncommon back then. I'm not sure how long the rope tied around Mallory's waist was, or if that could give any clues as to how the accident occurred. My assumption is that they were descending. Was he behind Irvine when he fell, falling past him? Was he leading down first. Was Irvine pulled off too? Or did he attempt to arrest the fall only to witness the rope fail leaving him there to find his own way back to camp? Mallory was found quite low down, so it seems they were close to high camp when the accident happened. Is Irvine up there somewhere too, bivouaced or succumbed after the accident? Or below Mallory somewhere having fallen? I could go on; obviously too many questions to be able to form a reasonable theory. I can't imagine they reached the summit, but they say he had his goggles in his pocket, perhaps it was dark, perhaps they a very long day - climbing up the north ridge (Odell seeing them perhaps on the third step) and, not wanting to reverse the Second Step, descending the Norton (ie. Great) Couloir which would find them kind of where the accident happened, close above where they found Mallory.

Chris, will you be the benefactor, the cash cow behind this expedition for Lisa and I? Thanks dude...

Ha ha. I am the benefactor of quite a few big NASA projects but it's your money - many thanks and we'll use it well.

Lisa I can't see Irvine carrying Mallory down, I think he fell from more technical terrain.

But back in those days, before the money changers took over the temple, gentlemanly behavior was mandatory.

I haven't read the book, but that rope in the photo looks like nylon to me. (Not Hemp, sisal or natural fiber)

I am always surprised by the propensity of theories proposing that it was Mallory who fell and Irvine who struggled to carry him back to camp. Of the two, Mallory was far and away the stronger, more experienced and more competent climber. It comes to my mind more likely that Irvine fell and pulled Mallory off to his doom. In my scenario O'dell was right. He saw them pass the 3rd step and moving with alacrity with only the summit pyramid remaining. I think they likely ran out of O2 on the way down and discarded the bulky breathing apparatuses. I think it likely the Chinese found and removed this evidence to protect their own claims of first ascent success. As I envision it they (or at least Mallory) summited. I picture them using the rope to lower an exhausted Irvine down the second step where it broke from abrasion. Irvine falls and is injured but not fatally and is able to stumble onward towards camp until collapsing high on the East Ridge utterly spent. The broken rope does not leave Mallory enough line to descend the step so he back tracks to the Norton Coulior. Descending in the dark Mallory is either struck in the head by a falling rock or slips breaking his leg and smashing his head. It is clear from his injuries that he did not fall far and based on his resting spot certainly not from up on the East Ridge. He was found surprisingly close to the safety of camp. What an epic struggle those days must have been. For me one of the most telling bits of evidence that indicates the possibility of a summit was the missing portrait photo of Mallory's wife. He kept it lovingly wrapped in cloth in his breast pocket. It was his intent to only leave it behind on the summit. When found the photo was not on his body. He would not likely have thrown it away in failure. Forget the missing camera. Think about the missing photograph.

For the record Irvine's body was stumbled into by the early Chinese teams and possibly seen by a few other expeditions over the years. His assumed location appears to be empty now. Theories involve a large snow slide avalanche pushing him off the lower angle terrain and into the no-man's land below.

RIP

You have very interesting theories, and all of them are very plausible. Thanks for sharing, I think you could be right on several of your theories including the photograph issue. Unless someone stumbled on his body previously and took the photo...the possibility of them having reached the summit is much greater with the fact of the missing photograph...and all with ancient gear. It's so interesting.

here ya' go Lisa. Get down to El Paso for this event on Feb 19th and get that personal interview with Conrad. And get funding for our expedition too.

NEW!!!

Irvine’s Body Found on Everest??

scientificamerican.com/arti…

MichaelClimbs wrote:NEW!!! Irvine’s Body Found on Everest??

Holzel talks about putting together an expedition for $125k to examine the location of the "1 x 6 meter slash in the snow" that seems to contain a body when aerial photos are magnified at 60x. Wouldn't it be more appropriate to pay some pilot $10k to fly closer and take better pics before committing to this? Of course, hey, if someone else is paying for it, rock on! All in the name of adventure. If I could get funded to look for snow (or Elvis, whatever) on Everest, I would probably go.

Check out this link to an intriguing theory.

http://www.mounteverest.net/news.php?id=18779

Eric Krantz wrote: Holzel talks about putting together an expedition for $125k to examine the location of the "1 x 6 meter slash in the snow" that seems to contain a body when aerial photos are magnified at 60x. Wouldn't it be more appropriate to pay some pilot $10k to fly closer and take better pics before committing to this? Of course, hey, if someone else is paying for it, rock on! All in the name of adventure. If I could get funded to look for snow (or Elvis, whatever) on Everest, I would probably go.

better yet, anybody got a friend at the NRO, someone who can redirect one of our nice expensive Misty satellites to take high resolution photos from space? I know we have enough sats poking around over that end of the world, so let's get one aimed at Everest for some quality photos.

Eventually, forensic climbers will gather enough evidence and publish their revisionist theory and the populace will adhere to their theory that will be republished ad infinitum.
I suggest that my theory is as good as anything I've seen so far.
Here goes.
Mallory and Irvine died from total exhaustion after completing the first link up traverse of Nuptse, Lhotse and Everest, summitting each.
You laugh all you want now.
I'm right and no one will ever convince me otherwise, regardless of what some future revisionist may want to put forth as "scientific truth."