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By rging
From Salt Lake City, Ut
Jul 16, 2012
CoR

"...East Prong feature between Teewinot and Mount Owen about 500 feet below an area that requires a notably challenging climbing move"

Anyone know what this might consist of? Just wondering if it is normal to do unroped, unprotected as his partners were not concerned until they summited and he wasn't there. Tragic nontheless.

www.nationalparkstraveler.com/2012/07/salt-lake-city-man-who>>>


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By Christian "crisco" Burrell
From PG, Utah
Jul 16, 2012
Our less than official sponsor!

I read this yesterday too. I was confused as to why the rest of the group would leave him behind in the first place. High in the mountains is not a place to ditch anybody (even if it is on "easy" terrain). If he was having trouble at a spot, perhaps they could have offered him some kind of assistance.
Also wondered if (like you asked) this was commonly done un-roped.


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By Scott McMahon
From Boulder, CO
Jul 16, 2012
Bocan

Christian "crisco" Burrell wrote:
I read this yesterday too. I was confused as to why the rest of the group would leave him behind in the first place. High in the mountains is not a place to ditch anybody (even if it is on "easy" terrain). If he was having trouble at a spot, perhaps they could have offered him some kind of assistance. Also wondered if (like you asked) this was commonly done un-roped.


Yeah that's a unsuprising violation of backcountry rules. Here's an article in Boulder where they let a 74 year old woman with onset dementia leave the group. Play it smart people.

www.dailycamera.com/ci_21078273/boulder-sheriffs-office-deci>>>


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By Jake Jones
From Richmond, VA
Jul 16, 2012
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.

"he separated from his group and moved ahead of them on the route... Park officials say the Utah man separated from his partners as they were completing the final rappels off of a shoulder peak west of Teewinot Mountain. The last time Mr. Tietze's party saw him was about 10:30 a.m. His group continued the climb and summited Mount Owen where they waited for their friend. After he failed to meet his group on the summit, the three partners backtracked and attempted a search for their friend until 7:30 p.m."

Is anyone else confused by this? He separated from them and moved ahead of them... going down? His partners were completing "final rappels", so... they were descending on ropes right? And if they were, why wasn't he?

It then goes on to say "His group continued to climb..."- weren't they just completing final rappels? Does this route require a rap in from the top? Does the author know his ass from a hole in the ground? Am I just a dipshit that's reading this wrong and can't put it together chronologically?


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By Leeroy
Jul 16, 2012

Jake Jones wrote:
Am I just a dipshit that's reading this wrong and can't put it together chronologically?


Yes.


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By Rocky_Mtn_High
From Arvada, CO
Jul 16, 2012
Lamb's Slide

Leeroy, please review Guideline #1.
Jake, since it's a traverse, my guess is that the route requires some rappels, and apparently they were on the last section that required a rap. The victim evidently set out (for the summit of Mt. Owen) before the entire group finished the rap, and he fell on a dicey move, ahead of the rest of the group.


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By rging
From Salt Lake City, Ut
Jul 16, 2012
CoR

It was a traverse with several peaks involved so there was some rappelling in the middle. If its a scramble then it would not be uncommon for someone(s) to move ahead instead of waiting for the ropes to be pulled and packed (gets you out of carrying the rope, right). Given they didn't look for him until the next summit leads me to believe it is stanard practice to do that section unroped but I am not familiar with it.


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By Jake Jones
From Richmond, VA
Jul 16, 2012
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.

r_m_high wrote:
Jake, since it's a traverse, my guess is that the route requires some rappels, and apparently they were on the last section that required a rap. The victim evidently set out (for the summit of Mt. Owen) before the entire group finished the rap, and he fell on a dicey move, ahead of the rest of the group.


Ok thanks. That pretty much answers my question. This comment also threw me off, in conjunction with reading the article:

Christian "crisco" Burrell wrote:
I was confused as to why the rest of the group would leave him behind in the first place


It appears as though he left them, not the other way around- in which case there would have been nothing the others in his party could have done for him.

Leeroy, do you not find it confusing at all that the article reads like they're finishing up a descent, yet, the victim is ahead of them (and unroped), then they're going up, and the victim is ahead of them, then they arrive at the top, and they're waiting on the victim, which was ahead of them?

The only way I can think of that this wouldn't be confusing is if A) you were there or B) you've been on the route before.

I don't blame you for jumping at the chance to affirm that someone is a dipshit- especially when they asked. I would however ask that in the nature of being a good sport, you don't immediately come back with this dramatic overstatement:

Leeroy wrote:
you find it necessary to bust my balls and play forum police


If you were indeed just offering a simple answer to a simple question and not attempting to amuse yourself with a witty quip, which you were, then there would be no reason to get all dramatic and defensive. Stay sharp out there Leeroy. The interwebs is a dangerous place for kids like you.


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By Leeroy
Jul 16, 2012

r_m_high wrote:
Leeroy, please review Guideline #1.


WTF?

OK. I'll post it again. I answered his question directly without comment. What's with busting my balls for politely confirming his suspicions?

And WTF is with the editing of all of my comments all of a sudden? Not marked as edited/deleted but just deleted without comment. Rules must have changed again. Someone must have spent the whole weekend whining to the mods around here and now they're back in super defensive delete mode.


Sorry to hear about the fallen climber. Too bad this place is such a cesspool. It'd be nice to have an actual conversation about accidents like this without the usually perma gumbies showing up and screaming about stupid off topic shit because they failed to read and comprehend the information in the posted link.

Apparently providing a direct answer to a direct question is now considered offensive and any post that exhibits this unforgivable trait will be quickly deleted with no explanation. I'll assume that a request for explanation will go unanswered.


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By Leeroy
Jul 16, 2012

Jake Jones wrote:
Leeroy, do you not find it confusing at all that the article reads like they're finishing up a descent, yet, the victim is ahead of them (and unroped), then they're going up, and the victim is ahead of them, then they arrive at the top, and they're waiting on the victim, which was ahead of them?



No. At least I think that's the answer to your blabbering gibberish of a run on sentence.

Might I suggest re-reading the article? Focus on the letters and keep a dictionary near by. Sound out the words if you get stumped. Keep trying. You'll get it!


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By Jake Jones
From Richmond, VA
Jul 16, 2012
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.

This completely proves that you're not a dramatic troll seeking to start shit. Congrats. My question was an honest one, and there were two people also someone confused by what was in the article.

You took the chance to jump in, call someone a dipshit, and pour your senseless derision on yet another post without offering anything that would add to the discussion- per your usual useless fare.

Then you proceed to proclaim that you are a victim of overmoderation and further proclaim this place is a cesspool, one which you apparently cannot get enough of- all while contributing nothing but bullshit.

I hope this answers your question.


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By FrankPS
From Atascadero, CA
Jul 16, 2012

Jake Jones wrote:
This completely proves that you're not a dramatic troll seeking to start shit. Congrats. My question was an honest one, and there were two people also someone confused by what was in the article. You took the chance to jump in, call someone a dipshit, and pour your senseless derision on yet another post without offering anything that would add to the discussion- per your usual useless fare. Then you proceed to proclaim that you are a victim of overmoderation and further proclaim this place is a cesspool, one which you apparently cannot get enough of- all while contributing nothing but bullshit. I hope this answers your question.



True dat! Hang in there, Jake!


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By Leeroy
Jul 16, 2012

Jake Jones wrote:
This completely proves that you're not a dramatic troll seeking to start shit. Congrats. My question was an honest one, and there were two people also someone confused by what was in the article. You took the chance to jump in, call someone a dipshit, and pour your senseless derision on yet another post without offering anything that would add to the discussion- per your usual useless fare. Then you proceed to proclaim that you are a victim of overmoderation and further proclaim this place is a cesspool, one which you apparently cannot get enough of- all while contributing nothing but bullshit. I hope this answers your question.


Jake, You are looking in a mirror as you type this, right?


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By Jake Jones
From Richmond, VA
Jul 16, 2012
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.

Leeroy wrote:
Jake, You are looking in a mirror as you type this, right?


No, not really Leeroy. Nice originality though. Another positive attribute you bring to the table.

Leeroy wrote:
Were you looking in a mirror as you typed this, or should I know who you are from your screen name? More amazing hypocrisy from an MP hardman. I feel blessed.


Common sense tells me that if I don't like the smell of dogshit, then I shouldn't walk through dog parks every single day of my life, and then complain about the smell of dogshit. Apparently it doesn't tell you the same thing.

Leeroy wrote:
This website just continues to get better and better. Great thread. 4 star post there Price.


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By Mark Lewis
From Salt Lake City, Utah
Jul 16, 2012

You had a legit question Jake; like you, I too was confused about the article and what exactly happened. +1 to all those who call DB's out on worthless, mean posts - and +1 for MP trying to clean it up some!


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By Taylor-B.
From CO & AK
Jul 16, 2012
Mt. Churchill, University Range

Super Tragic!


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By Jake Jones
From Richmond, VA
Jul 16, 2012
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.

Rowdy Wrangellian wrote:
Super Tragic!


Yes. Absolutely. +1. I meant to include that in my first post, but between the confusion and the douchebaggery that ensued, the most important part fell by the wayside. Apologies. Condolences to the climber's family and friends.


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By Nick Stayner
From The Magic City
Jul 16, 2012
Nick Stayner near the crux. Ryan Minton photo.

In my experience, normal to climb without a rope on much of the Traverse. Only used on the North Ridge of the Grand and a couple of raps along the way.

Jake, hopefully what others have said about the route will answer some of your questions. If you check out a map (or Google Earth) of the terrain involved, it will probably make more sense. The terrain is typical alpine- complex with lots of 4th class terrain funneling climbers into various sections of more technical climbing. Variations certainly possible at a number of points along the Teewinot-Owen section.

I suspect at this point there are still a lot of unknowns that may or may not remain that way depending on how much morei information the other members of the party may give.

ON ANOTHER NOTE: I don't know who does this, but could a mod maybe move this typical meaningless Leroy hijack to a different thread (or delete it entirely)? It's disgusting to see it overtake a thread involving a fatal accident.

Jake, in the future just try to ignore the sad pot-stirrings of a lonely, attention-craving man.


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By Jake Jones
From Richmond, VA
Jul 16, 2012
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.

Indeed I will Nick. Thanks for the clarification and explanation.


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By sqwirll
From Las Vegas
Jul 16, 2012
Cool snow formation at the base.

Jake Jones wrote:
Is anyone else confused by this? He separated from them and moved ahead of them... going down? His partners were completing "final rappels", so... they were descending on ropes right? And if they were, why wasn't he? It then goes on to say "His group continued to climb..."- weren't they just completing final rappels? Does this route require a rap in from the top? Does the author know his ass from a hole in the ground? Am I just a dipshit that's reading this wrong and can't put it together chronologically?


When doing the traverse, you summit Teewinot first and start heading west along a ridge between Teewinot and Owen. The East Prong is on the ridge between the two peaks. When I did it, we did a couple of rappels to bypass this section.

He must of either gone first on rap or downclimbed and fallen shortly there after since his body was found below the East Prong. I'm guessing his friends assumed he continued on to the summit of Owen since that's about the only way to go from there.


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By rging
From Salt Lake City, Ut
Jul 16, 2012
CoR

Thanks for the link. I wasn't sure if this was part of the grand traverse or not. After reading the description and seeing the words down climbing 5.4 that did it for me. Just easy enough to be confident and just hard enough to be difficult. Perfect simul (down)climb terrain but since it is part of a very long route time is always an issue.


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By Buff Johnson
Jul 17, 2012
smiley face

Nick Stayner wrote:
ON ANOTHER NOTE: I don't know who does this, but could a mod maybe move this typical meaningless Leroy hijack to a different thread (or delete it entirely)?


To a point.

But really, most of us already know going unroped, moving fast, an not falling is a norm rule on that stuff; the rope and pro are a luxury, it's not a sport crag. Maybe Leeroy's a f'n douche, point taken, but half of this other shit reads like peak bagging gumby dumbass crap.


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By Erick Valler
From flat midwest
Jul 17, 2012

It was so nice when Yarp finally disappeared from the forums... leave it to some bored-ass ruining an awesome name like Leeroy.


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By Leeroy
Jul 17, 2012

Erick Valler wrote:
It was so nice when Yarp finally disappeared from the forums... leave it to some bored-ass ruining an awesome name like Leeroy.


*chuckle*


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By David Arthur Sampson
Jul 19, 2012
Slap/Tickle

Agreed; Leeroy you appear to be an unpleasant, unhelpful chap.


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By Unassigned User
Jul 19, 2012

David Arthur Sampson wrote:
Agreed; Leeroy you appear to be an unpleasant, unhelpful chap.


Said like a sir! It is sobering everytime I read of a fellow climber dying. Easy to get ahead of ourselves out there.


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