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Echo Rock - West Face
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Legolas 
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Team Slug (aka Cliff Pounder) 
Ten Conversations at Once 
Too Bold to Bolt 
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Try Again 

Ten Conversations at Once 

YDS: 5.10a French: 6a Ewbanks: 18 UIAA: VI+ British: E1 5a

   
Type:  Trad, 1 pitch, 70'
Consensus:  YDS: 5.9+ French: 5c Ewbanks: 17 UIAA: VI British: E1 5a [details]
FA: Randy Vogel & Charles Cole, February 1980
Page Views: 248
Submitted By: Woody Stark on Jan 5, 2005
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Description 

Start from stacked boulders about thirty feet right of the route Forbidden Paradise Climb a left-facing flake to an overhang, mount the overhang to the bolt and then move left and up. The lower flake is of dubious quality so care should be taken in placing protection under it. Three of us felt the rating should be around 5.8/9.


Protection 

Standard rack and one bolt (3/8")



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By Locker
From: Yucca Valley, CA
Jan 5, 2005
rating: 5.9- 5c 17 VI HVS 4c

I am one of the three and can't believe this route is rated 5.10a, and to reiterate Woody's comment about the flake...it thins considerably towards the top and will in time snap if pulled on incorrectly (meaning with too much outward force). The crux move looks deceptively harder from ground level so don't be intimidated. It is not at all height dependent, so long as you are of at least average height!

Just because we three feel it is easier than 5.10a, that doesn't mean that it has been wrongly rated!

By Woody Stark
Mar 25, 2005

Hmmm! I had one of those weird moments on this route Monday. Not long ago, I stated that this route was overrated at 10a and should be a nine. Locker and I flashed it. Well, Monday I did it again thinking that it would be a quick climb while waiting for the line to shorten on another. I struggled all the way; and flat out couldn't do the final move off the upper ledge. I instead went straight up from the bolt into the bucket then traversed over to the anchors. Odd how much difficulty can vary on varying days. Again a caution: the lower flake is downright scary: it's rotten and quite thin in spots. I'd use tri-cams placed well back under the flake where it's thicker. Cams might pull right through due to the decomposed quality of the rock. I hesitate to say this(Please forgive me.); a bolt somewhere near the beginning of the lieback and on the face to the left might be justified. So, as of this note, Randy is wrong again: Monday it was 10b.

By Randy
Mar 26, 2005
rating: 5.10a 6a 18 VI+ E1 5a

Woody: Maybe, just like the rating, the suggestion of adding bolts is equally suspect. The pro hasn't kept you from leading it twice.

By Woody Stark
Mar 26, 2005

Of course, my playing back and forth with the rating was a joke on myself; however, I trusted none of the pro I put in under the flake. I had the feeling that a fall would strip all of it due to the rotten quality of the rock. One bolt would preclude that from happening. Be that as it may, I haven't placed a bolt in thirty years; it's only an observation.

By C Miller
Administrator
Feb 22, 2010
rating: 5.10a 6a 18 VI+ E1 5a PG13

Lieback up a hollow-sounding flake to a horizontal, make a blind reach for the lip, mantle up and then move left past a bolt finishing up a polished waterchute.

Fun and varied climbing that's a nice departure from all of the slabbing nearby. Two stars out of five.