Teacher's Pet 

i don't agree with this route. i did this about ten years ago solo.. no point in grid bolting the whole canyon!!

ooo said "And I free soloed it 15 years ago. And plenty of folks free-soloed it before me. Give your ego a rest and let some folks enjoy climbing this."


Yeah, shame on you Clay for having an opinion that differs from the bolter of this route.

(abusive comments have been deleted from this thread)

Please refrain from using comments for character attacks. It violates rule #1 - don't be jerk.

Have something intelligent to add about the route? Then add it. But keep the junior high name calling to yourself.

Disclaimer: I have no opinion on the route in question. But I do have opinions on people abusing the route database for character attacks.

There is no ego involved in a 5.5 slab.. It is just pointless.. There are plenty of killer moderates around.. I have enjoyed most of them also.. It is not cool with me to bolt routes that have history behind them!!! Such as good moderate solos that have already seen first ascents years ago!!

If I understand correctly, there is a common conception that if the FA of a route was done in a certain style, then all other ascents of that route, no matter their variation of style, must be done with at most or less protection than was used in the original ascent. So for example, if a slab was free-soloed on the FA, then bolting it for future ascents would be considered unethical, even if this gives the route an X severity rating. Unethical, because it _can_ and _was_ done without bolts, and therefore all future ascensionists, (in keeping with the route's history and the purity of the sport), must do the same.

Don't misunderstand; I believe that adding a permanent fixture, such as a bolt, to a rock face should be a decision that is weighed heavily and agreed upon with consensus from the community before it is done, but I get the feeling that some people, (and I'm not intimating anyone here), are perhaps too blinded in their adamancy that, either no rock should ever have fixed hardware, or, that the state of the rock face at the time of the FA must always be reflected in all future ascents of it.

STP, you understand correctly. For the most part, if you get there first, you get to make the call about how things go down -- well up, really -- forever. That's the way it works. First ascentionists have the say so over what happens. The bolts should be removed.