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A Different School of Thought T 
Birds of Prey T 
Blood On The Tracks T,TR 
Candy Corner T 
Daydream, The T 
Drop Zone T 
Ecstasy T 
Ecstasy Junior T 
Fine Young Cannibals  T 
La Bella Vista T 
La Bella Vista: Lotus variation T 
Lower Skyline Direct (LSD) T 
Muscle Beach T 
Nightwings T 
Satisfaction 2 T 
Shambler, The T 
Simple J Malarky T 
Sixth Sense T 
Southern Exposure T 
Southwest Buttress Variation T 
Spinnaker S 
Sunshine T 
Superstition T 
T & T T 
Tony's Nightmare T 
Tony's Nightmare Direct Finish T 
Totem T 
Welcome to Seneca T 
Wild Men Only T 
Ye Gods & Little Fishes T 
Unsorted Routes:

T & T 

YDS: 5.9 French: 5c Ewbanks: 17 UIAA: VI ZA: 17 British: HVS 5a

Type:  Trad, 2 pitches, 190'
Consensus:  YDS: 5.9- French: 5c Ewbanks: 17 UIAA: VI ZA: 16 British: HVS 4c [details]
FA: Tom Cecil, Todd Offenbach
Page Views: 1,056
Submitted By: Jeremy Steck on Sep 1, 2008

You & This Route  |  Other Opinions (10)
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P1: Climb the face with many really positive holds past many bolts. About 20 ft below the Kauffman Cardon Ledge, there's a set of shuts. To do the entire route, skip these shuts and head up and left to reach the shuts on the Kauffman Cardon Ledge. A piece or two may be needed here in the last 20 ft to reach the ledge. If you just climb to the first set of shuts, it's a sport route and probably easier than 5.9.

P2: Continue up the face slightly to the left of the belay. A piece or two of gear can be placed before the first bolt. From the bolt, aim for the small overhang, pass 2 more bolts, and climb to the top. Crux is near the overhang.


Locate the ramp system 40 ft uphill from the start of Skyline Traverse, this ramp system marks the start of Worrell's Thicket. This is the next line with bolts over from H & H.


bolts, a few pieces of gear. Shuts at top of Pitch 1, belay from tree at the top of Pitch 2. Rap from fixed anchors above Bee Sting Corner about 30 ft to the left of the finish.

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By Jesse Morehouse
From: CO
Oct 21, 2008
rating: 5.8 5b 16 VI- 15 HVS 4c

This route is about 1/2 way between Skyline and Worrells. Look for the first bolt very high up with a large tree close to the base. You can either climb straight up to the bolt with no decent gear on thin but solid climbing or traverse in from the ledge system just off the ground on Skyline. Eiter way you run it out a bit. Great climbing, a long pitch if you go all the way to Broadway in one lead, but the clips are a bit of a stretch for short folks.

The intermediate belay was put it to allow rapping this with one rope if I remember correctly.
By Befta
From: Golden, CO
Oct 20, 2010

Fantastic climb! It's not the traditional seneca style either. It's much more sporty.

It is definitely run out throughout the whole climb, but the holds are really positive and the moves are solid. It's very slightly overhanging after the 4th bolt.

We rapped down bee sting, then to a tree then all the way down. Seems like there should be an easier way to go, but we were running out of daylight.
By Tom Cecil
Aug 15, 2015

Many seem to think this is a Sport climb--it is not--it is a mixed climb--if you bring gear (and can place it) this route is not runout at all. I put the route up, I would never set up a "Sport Climb" to create a contrived dangerous climb (not enough bolts). When setting Sport Climbs I feel a responsibility to the next climbers not to fuck it up. Taking a blank wall and deciding to bolt it but not put enough bolts in to at least keep you from hitting the ground is the definition of contrived and unnecessary.

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