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Stoppers in Horizontal Cracks
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By William Kramer
From Kemmerer, WY
Feb 5, 2014
Lisa Falls

I post this, not to start debates or arguments, but because I have finally realized there is a huge climbing world outside the one I know. So here comes another question, I have always been told that you can't use stoppers or hexes in horizontal cracks because of force direction, or in other words if you fall on a stopper in a horizontal it will pull out. I have seen many pictures and videos on youtube and such with these pro pieces in horizontals with no issue, so question is, can you use them in horizontal?


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By Bill Lawry
From New Mexico
Feb 5, 2014

William Kramer wrote:
... can you use them in horizontal?

Yes. That said, there is some question as to whether a fall on a good placement will permanently deform the wire, or break it. Situation dependent.


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By dave jr
From cottonwood az
Feb 5, 2014

yes, like bill said. i prefer hexes and nuts in horizontals vs cams cause if i do deform the wires or stems there a lot cheaper to replace. i'm kinda a cheap ass and don't want to f up expensive gear.


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By Ryan Watts
From Bishop, CA
Feb 5, 2014
Flatirons

Of course, assuming there is something to keep it from coming out of the horizontal (like if the lip pinches at the front). It's just a piece of metal -- should be pretty easy to tell if it's going to come out or not.

And you won't break the wires from falling on a stopper in a horizontal. You might bend/kink them but they aren't going to just snap. That's the kind of the thing that only happens in internet climbing land.


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By Derek Lawrence
From Bailey
Feb 6, 2014
Cocaine Corner

Placing two pieces in opposition works when there isn't a lip to prevent a straight out pull.

www.climbing.com/skill/nuts-101/

One thing the article doesn't mention is placing a stopper in opposition to prevent an upward pull which can come in handy where you can't get a cam (ie the start of the 2nd half of Touch N Go in Eldo)


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By Keithb00ne
From Las Vegas, NV
Feb 6, 2014
Grand Teton

How about some pictures of examples? I love seeing properly placed gear.


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By Dane Burke
Feb 6, 2014
midway up Mt. Formidable's NE Face

Ryan Watts wrote:
And you won't break the wires from falling on a stopper in a horizontal. You might bend/kink them but they aren't going to just snap. That's the kind of the thing that only happens in internet climbing land.


Yeah, probably not going to catastrophically break, but you could still damage the wire and need to retire the piece. But if I have to retire a $10 nut that just saved my ass then I got my money's worth.


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By Ksween
From Wakefield, RI
Feb 6, 2014

Horizontal nut in a pocket
Horizontal nut in a pocket


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By Mattberr
From utah
Feb 6, 2014
uintas

Tricams.


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By Gunkiemike
Feb 6, 2014

I'd guess that 90+ % of gear placements (including stoppers) at the Gunks are in horizontal cracks.


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By DesertRat
Feb 6, 2014

+1 for Tricams


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By D.Buffum
Feb 6, 2014
Orgasm Direct, Devil's Lake, 5.11a  c. 2008

That above picture is the perfect illustration for the biggest risk of using a nut in a horizontal: if you have a significant lateral swing, the nut can pull. Stoppers are not multidirectional. It can be a perfect placement for a downward pull, but very vulnerable to a lateral pull.

There are lots of great nut placements in horizontal cracks. Just be aware that lateral forces from big swings are a danger.


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By The Stoned Master
From Millerstown, PA
Feb 6, 2014
Day Lily.

D Buffum wrote: There are lots of great nut placements in horizontal cracks. Just be aware that lateral forces from big swings are a danger.

+1. if you can (not always available or reasonable) set another nut and oppose them via a sling or whatever you have. as has been said.


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By Jeff Thilking
From Knoxville, TN
Feb 6, 2014
Rap

I think if it "might" hold, it's worth cramming a nut in a horizontal, especially if your pretty sure said nut is still gonna be clipped to your side when you get to the top...


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By Noah.J
From Carrboro, NC
Feb 6, 2014
Breithorn ski descent

Tricams are bomber when placed as nuts. The relationship doesn't work both ways. You can make nuts work in horizontals, but it's going to be the exception that proves the rule where a horizontal nut placement is better than a tricam.


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By TomCaldwell
From Clemson, S.C.
Feb 6, 2014
Me on One Pitch Wonder at Whitesides.  Photo credits to Kyle Jones and his lucky anti-rain jacket.

Sling the nut long in the picture and hope it doesn't walk. It isn't the best piece, but it might hold. Another really good placement for nuts in horizontals is pods. Stick the nut in, then rotate 90 degrees to make it taller. Pull it to the lip to set it. There are tons of placements like that on all types of rock. Doubtful that you would ever break a wire just because it is in a horizontal. It may get kinky, but it won't fail. Even kinky wires aren't bad, you just don't want frayed or crimped. Tri-cams are probably the best solution for horizontals.


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By Steve Williams
From Denver, CO
Feb 6, 2014

One way to make stoppers work in horizontal cracks is to stack
them on either perlon or webbing. By that, I mean one places two stoppers on the same piece of perlon, one above the other. Then
one bends the stoppers over one another and places them into the
crack, and gently pulls the perlon to wedge the stoppers together.
(They will be reversed on one another this way). We used these
in the Gunks often because the cracks there are horizontal.
Works fine.

Stacked nuts
Stacked nuts


stacked nuts #2
stacked nuts #2


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By Winston O'Boogie
From Dixon, CA
Feb 6, 2014

+10 for tricams. Amazing for horizontals and overall versatility and price.


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By Climber26
Feb 21, 2014

Awesome, idea with the stacked stoppers. I have a set of Metolius stoppers that were given to me. ( only two were used but ten years old )a little nervous about the wire, maybe I'll look and see if this is an option for them.


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By wivanoff
Feb 21, 2014
High Exposure

Steve Williams wrote:
One way to make stoppers work in horizontal cracks is to stack them on either perlon or webbing.


Worked very well, BITD. From 1978 GPIW catalog:

home.comcast.net/~e.hartouni/GPIW/GPIW_021.jpg
home.comcast.net/~e.hartouni/GPIW/GPIW_022.jpg


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By patto
Feb 21, 2014

Place your protection according to the rock features available. Don't rely on simply rules.

Nuts can be placed in every plane imaginable if there are appropriate features. I've placed nuts with the wire point to the sky before. With an appropriate surface to wrap around then this can be a perfectly suitable placement.


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By Doug S
Feb 21, 2014
Edge of Time <br />

Steve Williams wrote:
One way to make stoppers work in horizontal cracks is to stack them on either perlon or webbing.



Awesome.


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By joshf
From missoula, mt
Feb 21, 2014
Me

you can also place two nuts offsetting each other (basically a triangle with the point coming out to you) and equalize them with a long sling. This prevents some of the side to side wiggle that can make nuts slide out of a good placement.


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By Eric Chabot
From Thetford Ctr, VT
Feb 21, 2014

When placing a nut in a horizontal I like to put the curved side down (if it has one). I've heard this called an 'active' nut placement since the curved side can help the nut cam against the walls of the crack. Definitely you still want a constriction on the lip though


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By Branin
Feb 23, 2014
Just getting a profile pic for now...

Mattberr wrote:
Tricams.

Hell. Yes. Forever.


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By JacksonLandFill
From South Central, PA
Feb 24, 2014
not everyone smiles

Thanks to William for starting this thread, never would I have thought of stacking nuts.


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