steel quickdraws

I do a fair amount of rope gunning for friends who want to TR a sport route. As a conscientious climber I have them TR off of two of my draws through the anchors.

Has anyone given thought to outfitting two quickdraws with a steel biner each so that they are specialized for this and don't wear out nearly as fast?

Probably most sport climbers don't want to haul that extra weight. Each one may outweigh many of your light draws.

It makes sense...I have two draws both with small locking biners on either end for top roping, so why not steel??

Sounds pretty simple..just do it!

In fact I have two draws exactly for this purpose. I've had them for a few years now and they're not showing any wear really, it's also nice for the fact that the steel doesn't leave a bunch of Aluminum oxide on the rope if you're spending a lot of time top roping a project.

I think that mine are from Omega Pacific, ones a wire gate and the other is an oval locker.

Buy a pair of DMM revolvers and throw these on the ends of a pair of QDs. Works great.
dmmclimbing.com/productsDet…

Arthur Cammers wrote:Buy a pair of DMM revolvers and throw these on the ends of a pair of QDs. Works great. dmmclimbing.com/productsDet…

Great idea, but those'll be some $60+ draws using the Revolvers.

God forbid he forgets them!!!

Naw, You can pick up 50kn ovals for about $10 each. It is a great idea if you are top roping a lot. I carry 2 steel ovals when I know I am going to set up top ropes they work great and yes your ropes stay cleaner. I wouldn't want to carry them up some alpine wall but for top roping at the crag they are great.
Dallen

Omega Pacific makes a nice wiregate steel biner out of nicely rounded barstock.
omegapac.com/gym_dandy.html

I have used the following for the past 5 years. Two BD Quicksilver 2 Lockers and Petzl Express Sling- 25 cm at the top of sport routes that we are going to TR.

I guess you could use OMEGA PACIFIC 7/16" STEEL MODIFIED D on one or both ends of the rope. The one gym i climb at uses these at the top of the lead routes. That would be one heavy ass draw though. But if your TR alot it may be worth it.

Arthur Cammers wrote:Buy a pair of DMM revolvers and throw these on the ends of a pair of QDs. Works great. dmmclimbing.com/productsDet…

Low-friction devices are not generally used for top-roping. If you do, make sure the belayer outweighs the climber and/or is securely anchored.

i always cringe when i see people recommend revolvers for a purpose like this. they are completely and utterly not made for this sort of thing.

slim wrote:i always cringe when i see people recommend revolvers for a purpose like this. they are completely and utterly not made for this sort of thing.

Why not? From DMM's description of the product:

"However, there are other important factors to consider too. Since the rope rolls over the roller there will be less wear and tear on your rope which will increase its working life considerably."

So, you have a carabiner that would save both wear and tear on your rope, and, won't groove out like a regular TR carabiner.

Why is it utterly not made for this sort of thing?

brian, the friction at the top of a toprope setup is essential for providing the ability to counteract the load. if you basically have a pulley (ie the revolver, albeit a poor one), there is very little friction damping to help bring a moving object to a stop. for example, if you have a 160lb climber belayed by a 120lb belayer, the climber falls, the belayer totally locks off. how will the climber be arrested without assistance from the friction at the anchor point? he won't.

in a thread a few years ago, there was a guy who said that the friction at the anchor point is "inconsequential". this is false, it is essential.

another thing - if you use a pair of revolvers together, the pulley wheels will be rotating in opposite directions at the point where they are basically touching. not the end of the world, but another aspect that indicates that these aren't the tool for the job.

Here's a previous discussion on the topic

Petzl figured up the force reduction of a TR through a carabiner-style anchor to be around 34% or so. It works out to something like this; the numbers are a little big but you get the idea:

Toprope pulley effects

How about using a steel quick link at one end and a crab at the other end of a dog bone?

You could try any variety of gym draws...or at least a biner off of one...
dmmclimbing.com/productsDet…

Bring two of their draws or make them lead. If they can't get a TR all the time you will be amazed how fast their leading improves.

A while back, I heard or read that it is bad ethic to TR from sport anchors. As A guide, I have done this a fair amount for newbies (Using our draws of course). Is it bad ethic?

Not using your own draws.

daryl,

thanks for the link. the results are consistent with the '30% rule of thumb' that has been thrown around historically.