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Statistics on injuries resulting from ice lead falls

Original Post
LawHous · · Colorado Springs, CO · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 481

So everyone who climbs ice has heard someone else say "you just don't fall on ice" or "never fall on ice". We all know the consequences from falling on ice are more severe due to the fact we have big metal spikes attached to our feet. Yet everyone I've ever spoken to who has fallen on ice has walked away unscathed.

The question is does anybody know of any statistics showing the number of people who get hurt after falling on lead (on ice) compared to those who walk with minor injuries or none at all? Looking for articles on it or just some useful feedback. Thanks

doligo · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 264
LawHous wrote: We all know the consequences from falling on ice are more severe due to the fact we have big metal spikes attached to our feet.
Not necessarily. Mixed and drytoolers have the same metal spikes and they do fall sometimes a lot. The difference is in the pro and the medium. You don't want to fall on ice because pro is sparse and nobody really wants to test it even in bomber ice. Leading ice is controlled solo, and you don't want to fall soloing, do you?

LawHous wrote: Yet everyone I've ever spoken to who has fallen on ice has walked away unscathed.
Everyone I know who's taken a fall and walked away unscathed, consider themselves lucky and certainly do not want any repeaters. Have you asked your friends where'd they fallen? A lot of falls I know of are usually all the way to the ground into a nice pile of snow.
Rob Cotter · · Silverthorne, CO · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 240

I've taken at least three whippers onto ice screws two of them pretty spectacular. I wasn't injured in any of them save for a skinned nose caused by a falling slab of snow- ice...

I can't even keep track of the dry-tooling falls.

So 3 & 0.

LawHous · · Colorado Springs, CO · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 481

"Not necessarily. Mixed and drytoolers have the same metal spikes and they do fall sometimes a lot. The difference is in the pro and the medium. You don't want to fall on ice because pro is sparse and nobody really wants to test it even in bomber ice. Leading ice is controlled solo, and you don't want to fall soloing, do you? "

Please let's not turn this into an argument. That is absolutely not what I want, just trying to see if anyone has any info on the topic.

Having said that I agree about the fact you have less frequent placements on ice but I think screws can be just as bomber as a good cam. I have always felt the main reason not to fall on ice is because your crampons will catch the wall resulting in injuries to your lower extremities.

And to answer your question none of my friends have ever decked after falling on ice. There screws held and they sustained minor injuries (ie bruises, cuts, scrapes). They do consider themselves lucky as well though and so should anyone who doesn't get too hurt falling on ice.

LawHous · · Colorado Springs, CO · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 481
RobC2 wrote:I've taken at least three whippers onto ice screws two of them pretty spectacular. I wasn't injured in any of them save for a skinned nose caused by a falling slab of snow- ice... I can't even keep track of the dry-tooling falls. So 3 & 0.
Yeah that is pretty much what I've heard from other people I know who've fallen on ice
Buff Johnson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 1,145

I'd doubt you'd be able to really peg a difference, but for survivable, I've seen more head & chest injury with ice and more lower extremity with rock; for whatever that's worth. Otherwise, avy & cold injury, which usually doesn't really translate to rock, maybe alpine.

I trust screws more than I used to. Although, I'm still never gonna whip on one.

Maybe your chances of getting flipped over are higher with ice, I don't know.

Garret Nuzzo Jones · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 1,436

I took a pretty scary fall just a couple weeks ago on an ice climb. Pretty surprised by it. Pulled the screw that was right below me that I knew was garbage and got caught by a screw that I knew was good. Came away with a sprained ankle and a bruised ego.

Aerili · · Los Alamos, NM · Joined Mar 2007 · Points: 1,875

All I can provide is a case report. One of my partners tried to lead ice before he really knew what he was doing and proceeded to fall and break his ankle.

Later in his ice career, he took a big whipper on some m/p and came out unhurt but very rattled. He wrote an awesome article about it in the Wall Street Journal.

sarcasm · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2010 · Points: 445

I think the old adage 'don't fall no matter what' came about mostly because of the type of screws or pro they were using back then. I feel that the modern screws are pretty amazing.

That being said, I still stick with that old adage. For a few reasons. First off, I've never put in as many pieces of pro per feet climbed on ice as I do on rock. That reason alone places the falls I could take on ice as being potentially more injurious.

Second, ice conditions vary and we aren't always placing screws in bomber solid ice. Ideally I want to always feel good about my pro, otherwise why put it in, but realistically sometimes I just need a screw in no matter what.

Third is the obvious super sharp metal spikes that will be flailing about my body as I fall. Pretty scary.

I've never fallen on lead and I've never seen anyone fall on lead. I climb with some guys who have witnessed first hand lead falls. Most of those resulted in some kind of rescue scenario. It never sounds like a good option to me.

I'd love to see some stats though.

Preston Rhea · · Mammoth Lakes · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 1,454

I recently saw a friend take a 30' fall on a screw that he thought was pretty manky. (In the interest of full disclosure, he was climbing on double ropes and had a screw three feet below the manky one that may have taken weight as well.) He walked away unscathed.

Watching the fall was pretty scary, but it certainly inspires some confidence in those screws we put in.

Scott O · · Anchorage · Joined Mar 2010 · Points: 70

Your friendly local climber with clinical epidemiology training here...

1) You're not going to find data on this that can be subjected to meaningful analysis.

2) Falling while ice climbing is bad for a multitude of reasons. Don't do it.

Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480

I would check out AAC's yearly accident report. You could tally up the information in a few years books and see what you come up with. I understand some don't report their lead falls but it's going in the right direction.

Don't fall?... No shit! That has nothing to do with the OP's topic.

lucander · · Stone Ridge, NY · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 260

There's a master's thesis study in here somewhere...

LawHous · · Colorado Springs, CO · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 481
Kirby1013 wrote: Don't fall?... No shit! That has nothing to do with the OP's topic.
Haha yes thank you! Please do no restate the fact it's not good to fall on ice. We all know and practice this. I'm just looking for stats, stories, injuries, etc. getting some good stuff though, keep it coming!
Matt Gusto · · Framingham, MA · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 0

Check out this video...talked to some guides in North Conway a couple weeks ago about this same topic.
vimeo.com/20549603

Brian Prince · · reno · Joined Mar 2010 · Points: 2,727

I caught a friend on, perhaps, a 25 footer. The real scary thing was it was on his first screw and his crampons flew right by my head on the way down. He ended up about 2 feet off the ground totally fine, but certainly a tad shaken...

Taylor-B. · · Valdez, AK · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 3,186

There's an accident report on Cold Thistle Blog that is worth reading.
coldthistle.blogspot.com/20…

Derek Doucet · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 66
doligo wrote: Not necessarily. Mixed and drytoolers have the same metal spikes and they do fall sometimes a lot. The difference is in the pro and the medium. You don't want to fall on ice because pro is sparse and nobody really wants to test it even in bomber ice. Leading ice is controlled solo, and you don't want to fall soloing, do you? Everyone I know who's taken a fall and walked away unscathed, consider themselves lucky and certainly do not want any repeaters. Have you asked your friends where'd they fallen? A lot of falls I know of are usually all the way to the ground into a nice pile of snow.
In 25 years of ice climbing, I've witnessed 4 falls on to screws. The screws held in all 4 cases, but injuries resulted in 2 of them.

Ice pro well placed in good ice (admittedly 2 significant caveats) is actually quite reliable, but it's still a terrible idea to fall. The main difference between falling on ice and the drytoolers you mention above is the angle of the terrain they're generally climbing on. The vast majority of pure ice routes are at most vertical. Most modern drytooling is on overhanging ground. That they don't snap their ankles regularly has as much or more to do with the fact that the falls they take tend to be clean air as it does with the quality of the protection. Think about slabby, ledgy rock routes. Even if the pro is bombproof it's still a lousy idea to fall on them. Add crampons in to the mix and you're asking for trouble.
Derek Doucet · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 66
Matt Gusto wrote:Check out this video...talked to some guides in North Conway a couple weeks ago about this same topic. vimeo.com/20549603
This accident is hardly representative of what one should expect in a fall on ice of that size. These guys made a multitude of errors and the leader survived unscathed by pure, dumb luck. Sadly, the lesson they seemed to have learned (increased confidence in the strength of ice pro) misses the point entirely. The lessons they SHOULD have learned appear to have been missed entirely.
Jeff Johnston · · Bozeman, MT · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 110

I was lucky enough to be one of the ones to walk away unscathed by a lead fall. It was only 6-7 feet but that was big enough for me.

In the few years I have been ice climbing, I have seen two broken ankles, both from top rope falls where the crampon either caught during the fall or just did not come out of the ice fast enough. Both times the fall was maybe a foot max. Not unreasonable for TR.

I had one friend that really should NOT have been leading, he got pushed in to a route well over his ability. he took from what I have been told a 15-20 footer that shattered his ankle after he got sketched and decided to run it out because he was having issues finding screw placements and was getting pumped. he ended up with 6 pins in his ankle.

I friend I was with two or three weeks ago had a tool pop on lead, it happened fast but I kind of remember a dinner plate coming loose causing the tool to slip. He took a 10 footer and did not even end up with a scratch, just a bit shaken for never having fallen on ice before.

So while I never would want to fall on ice it does happen and there can be injuries and there can be no injuries. Climb safe and have fun.

801maxwell · · SLC · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 10

Took a 30+ footer last week and gratefully walked away unscathed despite pitching back and falling most the way upside down. On looking at the screw that held found 3 fractures all at 120 degrees.

I have heard horizontal fractures are more typical but havent seen any photos of affected ice. Stoked the ice held, but obviously was stressed. Not sure how close this threshold was taken to failure but gives me confidence for future dire moments!

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Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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