SPOT vs. DeLorme PN-60w
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Anyone have the DeLorme Earthmate PN-60w GPS system? How does it compare to other GPS systems you've owned with respect with features, |
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I was thinking about a spot then I started doing research on plbs like the acr. They use government satellites and are built to a standard. The same technology that boats and aircraft use for distress calls. |
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yeah, i second that... get an acr plb. |
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oh, and one other thing.. |
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I have used the Spots but only for tracking at this site trackleaders.com/ |
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Cor wrote:yeah, i second that... get an acr plb. the cheapest is like 180bucks. no subscription. one other note about these units is they use the two(i forget the names) types of gov. satellites. if you pull the trigger and send the distress signal out, it goes to the airforce. then they pull up the chart of who owns it, looks at your notes (if you have any special #s to call) and contacts the local government (where ever you may be) to start in on things... you can not send messages though. but who cares, use it for it's use. hope this helps. ps: this is all straight talk! i did some research, and spoke with the noaa people (where it is registered) and then a captian in the airforce who manages the rescues.In terms of how the PLBs work....say you are climbing in Peru. When you pull the trigger, the signal goes to the U.S. Airforce, or a Peruvian national authority? From there who do they contact? Is there a way to stipulate that you would like a certain organization (say you have rescue insurance with the American Alpine Club or similar rather than Peruvian military) to start initiating the rescue so that your rescue bill is covered? Are there any PLBs that offer two way messaging? Being able to communicate with rescuers seems like it could be huge, even if the initial SOS takes longer to get out (as with InReach). |
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From my understandings... When you pull the trigger a ping goe out. It is picked up by one of the mant American lowes or goes sats. The Airforce see the signal, which has a serial number type thing. Each plb has a different number. |
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I bought a spot for a trip down to Northern Patagonia (Frey) last year. It worked well for about the first week in Buenos Aires and my travels to Bariloche. Once I made the hike out to Frey, it worked for just two days before it could no longer connect to a satellite. I was there for a month and tried it everyday, but with no luck. It turned out to be the device that stopped working, and couldn't connect to satellites anywhere, even back in the US. |
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tobe945 wrote: In terms of how the PLBs work....say you are climbing in Peru. When you pull the trigger, the signal goes to the U.S. Airforce, or a Peruvian national authority? From there who do they contact? ...The ACR will go to the AFRCC. Typically what will happen are phone calls & e-mail sends out to those in positions of authority who know each other. Then something usually gets coordinated through the State dept and it's usually something like logistical support. When that last avy incident happened there was a fair amount of e-mail traffic trying to task sat images and identify probable locations. I don't believe that even had a PLB involved, and there was still a large amount of support logistics involved. You still need a localized ground effort, sometimes supported by heli if the resources and cash are there. Peru is what & where it is. In a round about way to answer the question, you more than likely won't be able to hit the PLB and have the resources get you picked off the mountain as what happens in the States. But, that doesn't necessarily mean that nothing is happening, either. |
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I am not sure how this would apply outside the us but... |
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The more I learn SPOTs are shit, gimmicky toys that have been well marketed but not to be relied on during an emergency. I'm personally going with the DeLorme In Reach because of the 2 way communication. No other device has that. And despite being on Iridium satellites, which aren't quite as good as military, from everything I've read they are good enough with pole to pole coverage. And leaps better coverage/consistency than the SPOT. |
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I have thought about this subject a lot after having an incident 18 miles from the nearest road without any way of asking for help. |
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climber pat wrote:I have thought about this subject a lot after having an incident 18 miles from the nearest road without any way of asking for help. In the end I ended up buying a satellite phone. I have an Inmarsat ISatPhone pro which costs about $550 + about $1/minute with a prepaid card. It works except the polar regions where you would need an Iridium phone which cost about $1300-$1700 + $1.75/minute on a low use plan. Both phones can be rented if your need is short term; mine need is persistent so I purchased one. Having experienced the need to ask for a rescue, I was able to imagine how each device would have played out in various scenarios. I my case all I really needed was a horse or mule to carry me to the trail head. Calling our a full blown search and rescue by using a spot or plb would have been significant overkill for the situation but would have definitely solved the problem. But the more I though about it the more convinced I became that I wanted to talk with the rescuers, or global rescue, or my family to customize the help. Also two way communication was highly desirable to make the rescue more effective and cheaper on the providers. I have worked on the search and rescue side enough to know what a serious effort these activities are. Also the ability to talk seems much more valuable than short text messages, especially if I need to get the advice of a doctor for treating a wound or a disease. I have used both inmarsat and iridium phones side by side and the differences are interesting especially from an emergency situation. These differences are mostly caused by their satellite constellations. Inmarsat uses geosynchronous orbiting satellites which are stationary in the sky; Iridium uses lower orbiting satellites which are moving in the sky. With the Inmarsat phone you turn it on, wait for it to get a GPS fix and point the antenna at the satellite, let the phone register with the network (or watch the signal strength bars until you find the satellite). Then you can make phone calls just like making an normal international phone call. You must keep the antenna pointing in the general direction of the satellite. With Iridium you turn it on and let the phone register with the network and make phone calls. No pointing of the antenna towards a satellite (you have no real idea where they are). With both systems you must have view of the satellite; Iridium is handing off from satellite to satellite (like a cell phone as you drive around) as they rise and set (about every 1/2 hour). Once you establish an Inmarsat call you can keep the call going indefinitely however if you cannot see establish a link with the satellite you must move to a different location. Iridium has a pretty good chance of dropping the call every so often when the satellites are obscured by mountains or buildings or whatever. However if you cannot establish a Iridium call right now you will likely be able to fairly soon as the satellites move around in thDe sky. The longest I waited to get an Iridium connection was 2 hours when I was deep in a valley; the typical drop out lasting less than 5 minutes.Very helpful. I've thought a lot about a sat phone as well however I do favor being able to text rather than talk. I do a lot of alpine climbing and I can imagine a scenario in which I was on a mountain during a storm and couldn't hear the person speaking to me. Even with the Iridium the DeLorme inreach will give message delivery confirmation, so I can just make another send attempt (not the same scenario as having to worth about dropped calls). |
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FYI, |
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Was very happy with the Earthmate & inReach on Denali. Excellent device. We sent text message dispatches every day with the thing. I was on an independent expedition and basically managed all communications for the group. With one text message, I could send updates to everyone (family, facebook, twitter, blog). It was especially good to get the summit message out, and to confirm that our 5 person team was NOT the team in the avalanche above the 11k camp. Very nice device and the two way messages allowed us to be in contact with home. Helped a lot - even had one communication with our weather guy over it. |
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Cale Hoopes wrote:Was very happy with the Earthmate & inReach on Denali. Excellent device. We sent text message dispatches every day with the thing. I was on an independent expedition and basically managed all communications for the group. With one text message, I could send updates to everyone (family, facebook, twitter, blog). It was especially good to get the summit message out, and to confirm that our 5 person team was NOT the team in the avalanche above the 11k camp. Very nice device and the two way messages allowed us to be in contact with home. Helped a lot - even had one communication with our weather guy over it.Would love to hear more stories like these from people using these devices in truly unforgiving environments, and not tweeting to your friends from your local state park about a hike your grand-dad could do! |
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I have used both Inmarsat and Iridium phones in Cordillera Blanca of Peru. Both worked well, although I have to give the edge to the Inmarsat phone in that region. The reason Inmarsat worked better in the Cordillera Blanca is that this mountain range is close to the equator (9 degrees south) and the valleys all run towards the satellite's position in the sky giving you an unobstructed view from almost everywhere. Since you are closer to the equator the Iridium satellites are further apart in the sky, maximizing the potential for drop outs. |
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climber pat wrote:I have used both Inmarsat and Iridium phones in Cordillera Blanca of Peru. Both worked well, although I have to give the edge to the Inmarsat phone in that region. The reason Inmarsat worked better in the Cordillera Blanca is that this mountain range is close to the equator (9 degrees south) and the valleys all run towards the satellite's position in the sky giving you an unobstructed view from almost everywhere. Since you are closer to the equator the Iridium satellites are further apart in the sky, maximizing the potential for drop outs. On the other hand I would seriously consider not even trying to use the Inmarsat phone in far northern or southern latitudes (above 55 degrees) because the satellite will be low on the horizon and easily obscured by mountain ranges. Certainly in the polar regions the only choice is Iridium or potentially one of the PLBs which use polar orbiting satellites. My wife used the Inmarsat phone in Costa Rica with good success last year. Once in a while the foliage coverage was too dense and she would have to find a less dense area to create a connection to the satellite. All satellite phones should have this problem. I have also used Inmarsat, Iridium and Globalstar phones and the spot device in the southwestern US. In this region Inmarsat and Iridium both work well. At the time I was using Globalstar their satellites where failing and their service was poor although their voice quality was even better than cell phones, similar to land line quality. I have not used a Globalstar phone since they launched their new constellation and would be reluctant to because you have to get service in every country(region) you wish to use the phone. For example in Peru you had to get service from Peru branch of Globalstar and I could not communicate with them in English. My spot device worked fine too but lacked two way communication capability. The inreach/PN-60W combo looks like a viable system but the cost is pretty expensive ($270 + $230) plus the subscription is $10 - $50 per month and be able to text from anywhere. You can get easily an Isatphone for $550 + prepaid card with auto renewal and rollover minutes for $1/minute and be able to text and call. But not from the poles.How much for an Iridium based sat phone from which you can call AND text? Any particular recommendations? Sounds like a good choice for me too, seeing as I don't know where my adventures will take me next and I want to be sure I have coverage. |
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No offense to Iridium, but my Earthmate/inReach combo worked MUCH BETTER than my crap rented Motorola Sat Phone on Denali by far. And way cheaper. Plus the inReach/Earthmate combo was much easier to keep charged. The sat phone was near impossible to keep charged with the Goal Zero. |
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Oh, and yes, I know that the inReach uses the Iridium service. It just was a better device for communication on the mt. |
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I would buy the Iridium Extreme phone. I have only played with one of these for a few days and it worked fine. It has a GPS tracking option that I do not know much about, able to SMS/email messages, and an SOS button. Basically all the features in the Earthmate PN-60W combo plus a phone capability. I doubt that the tracking and SMS/email are done as nicely as the earthmate PN-60W but it will be using the same system to relay the messages. Also this phone is a ruggedized phone supposed to work to -20C and water resistant. This is the only Iridium phone that is ruggedized. The Isatphone is also ruggedized but not to the same standard. It appears to me that Iridium standard is tougher. |