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Sporto wants to go trad
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By Sir Spanxalot
Aug 7, 2012
no
Ok, so I have been climbing about 5 years and a majority of the routes I climb are sport routes. I have been getting into the .10s on bolts, but trad is RAD. I have little interest in climbing easier trad climbs because they are often what I see as more dangerous ya know ledges mainly. I got hurt leading trad a few years into my climbing and it has had an effect since.

I have climbed quite a bit of trad, mostly following a good buddy and mentor. I have done a number of easy pitches, but am not all that interested. What I want to know is this... in all seriousness. Where should I invest my time, getting trad mileage on easier routes, or getting stronger on hard sport routes, I have a family and time constraints. I want to climb routes like this...
mountainproject.com/v/equinox/...

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By Burt Lindquist
Administrator
From Madison, WI
Aug 7, 2012
Trying to stay warm up on Brownstone Wall Red Rocks, NV
You need to get confident placing gear (cams, nuts, etc.)and getting comfortable climbing above it and trusting it.... if you are not all ready. The best way to do that is mileage on routes below your top end on-sight difficulty level. This is just a very general suggestion and not in much detail of course... but it has always been a good course of action for building trad climbing skills..... pyramid building of basics skills.... lots of easier routes under your belt then eventually narrowing down the routes you attempt to harder lines.... You can always stick to harder crack climbs in the end that have excellent protection options.....

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By Old and Busted
From Centennial, CO
Aug 7, 2012
Stabby
Don't climb harder than your gear placing skills allow. I've turned routes into unplanned free-solos b/c I knew by the rating I could keep climbing rather than continue to fuck around with a gear placement I was too inexperienced to get. Stick with a experienced mentor who can bail you out if you get in over your head.
Since you have family obligations, what happens financially if you get hurt and can't work? A consideration for trad.

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By Guy Keesee
From Moorpark, CA
Aug 7, 2012
Big Boulder, just a bit downhill from Temple of Kali. Alabama Hills, CA.
Ditch the family.

Move to the Valley.

That will do it.

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By Sir Spanxalot
Aug 7, 2012
no
Guy Keesee wrote:
Ditch the family. Move to the Valley. That will do it.


Haha wish I could! Guess this is what I expected to hear. Mileage is what I need, it's a slow process. I'm pretty confident in my gear. I have taken a few small falls on big cams and felt good about it. Pretty scared to fall on small stuff. Guess I was wondering if any sportos out there made an easy transition to harder (5.10) trad.

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By T. Stark
From Los Angeles, CA
Aug 7, 2012
Rubicon direct "R" start (well the direct start that's not directly in the plants at least) <br />Photo by Rob Miramontes
n00bw1b00b wrote:
Guess I was wondering if any sportos out there made an easy transition to harder (5.10) trad.


Not really, just lead more trad since sport climbing doesn't help your gear placement at all.

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By csproul
From Rancho Cordova, CA
Aug 7, 2012
Summit of Wolf's Head with Pingora in the background
n00bw1b00b wrote:
Haha wish I could! Guess this is what I expected to hear. Mileage is what I need, it's a slow process. I'm pretty confident in my gear. I have taken a few small falls on big cams and felt good about it. Pretty scared to fall on small stuff. Guess I was wondering if any sportos out there made an easy transition to harder (5.10) trad.

Sure there have been sportos that could climb 5.10 trad pretty quickly. But most of the time they were probably leading much harder than 5.10 sport. I have definitely seen new trad leaders climbing 10's pretty soon, but they were 5.13 sport climbers before they even placed any gear. Their gear might have sucked...but it didn't really matter if there was no way they were going to fall. If 5.10 sport is your limit, then you'll probably be leading on gear much lower than that. Confidence in your gear is just a part of the equation.

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By FrankPS
From Atascadero, CA
Aug 7, 2012
When did sport climbers become "sportos"?

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By Sir Spanxalot
Aug 7, 2012
no
FrankPS wrote:
When did sport climbers become "sportos"?


Well I'm not a sport climber unless I can climb .12a right? So I'm just a sporto trying to have fun. Thanks for the advice... guess I'll be planning on doing mileage. Thanks for the advice about the getting hurt business. I unfortunately know that road a little to well, but is still a serious consideration.

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By Will S
From Joshua Tree
Aug 7, 2012
Why is it one or the other? Go warm up by doing a few trad pitches under your limit to get some mileage in and get the blood moving, then spent the rest of the session getting your crank on...whether bolted, TR, bouldering, whatever. Or do your hard climbing one day and spend the following day getting mileage on easier gear routes.

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By alleyehave
From San Diego, CA
Aug 7, 2012
Start of Pitch 3
Yer gunna DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!

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By Xan Calonne
From Studio City, Ca
Aug 7, 2012
I am with JLP here, and I think this echoes a recent (though frequent) thread here regarding falling on gear; just go for it, despite the 'warnings' of some crusters; look to previous generations if you need examples of people NOT DYING and pushing it above less than ideal protection. I HIGHLY recommend being confident placing gear before diving into trad routes at your limit though; for me this means choosing the right size first try for any given placement, if you have this ability then just climb. Should this ability be lacking, then climb 'easy' moderates until you can; I put easy in scare quotes because I have been far more humbled by 5.7 Josh than I ever have been by 5.7 sport. Anywhere. At any rate, take my opinion with a grain of salt; I am not awesome and I don't know how to rock climb well, but I love it and I'll go for it. Best, Xan (effin n00b).

I am with JLP in the sense that I think hard movement translates across the climbing spectrum, and in reference to the 'frequent posts' i cited, I DO NOT think that practicing falling on trad gear is anything other than a waste of good time otherwise spent climbing, and I see it as an unnecessary exposure to risk.

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By Woodchuck ATC
Aug 7, 2012
Rock Wars, RRG, 2008
Welcome back from the Dark Side.......

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By Olaf Mitchell
From Paia, Maui, Hi,
Aug 8, 2012
rockerwaves
YER NOT GONNA DIE!!!

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By Sarugo
Aug 8, 2012
I think most people on this forum plan to climb for the rest of their able-bodied life. If that is the case for you, I'd advise not to "just go for it".

Climbing is a numbers game... Shit happens... And it happens more frequently to people who climb above their grade.

Definitely good advice to be confident in gear placements before stepping it up on hard trad routes.

I'd recommend starting easy, getting sufficient beta regarding gear placements and always being extra aware of the fall you'd take. When it's time to push it you'll know.

Climb safe.

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By matt davies
Aug 8, 2012
Olaf Mitchell wrote:
YER NOT GONNA DIE!!!

Really, yer not. Most of my big whips have been on really small gear, that shit works mang!

What helped me a lot when I started leading hard(er) trad was to go trad bouldering,(you'll look crazy but get used to it) and place gear 4-10 feet off the deck, have my comfy crash pad under me, and clip placements staticly, then BOUNCE TEST the shit out of them, like try to pull them out with different full body weight static loads. I did ruin a couple nuts that got fused, but it convinced me that good gear I place is better 4 da head than a bolt that I didn't.
Then the gear opportunities start to mess the mental, and the battle continues...

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By Greg D
From Here
Aug 8, 2012
Out of the blue.  Photo by Mike W. <br />
Equinox is quite stiff imo. Not to mention you will likely head into the crux with only a gray or purple C3 beneath you. Have fun.

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By bearbreeder
Aug 8, 2012
ukclimbing.com/articles/page.p...

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By Medic741
From Pittsford, New York
Aug 8, 2012
When I was a bum at Frey
"there are old climbers and there are bold climbers but there are no old bold climbers."

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By matt davies
Aug 8, 2012
Medic741 wrote:
"there are old climbers and there are bold climbers but there are no old bold climbers."



Bologna, although a great drinking toast amongst non-climbers (when you're young)

Ocho-Ocho en toto. Gnarliest high altitude ascent of his day. Declined the greatest mountaineering prize in history to save the life of a gripped Hunza porter. Bold, cold, and old, Gunks legend, runout man, climbed 5.11 @ 69 in boots.

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By Adam Paashaus
From Greensboro, North Carolina
Aug 8, 2012
After you get done climbing be sure to head up to the summit for sunset. Its only a 10 minute walk from the main wall. Don't forget your headlamp.
Didn't read every post but you may find that 5.11 trad is different than 5.11 sport so you may be totally happy starting out in the easier grades. Just a thought.

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By Rob Dillon
Aug 8, 2012
1) "What helped me a lot when I started leading hard(er) trad was to go trad bouldering,(you'll look crazy but get used to it) and place gear 4-10 feet off the deck, have my comfy crash pad under me, and clip placements staticly, then BOUNCE TEST the shit out of them, like try to pull them out with different full body weight static loads. I did ruin a couple nuts that got fused, but it convinced me that good gear I place is better 4 da head than a bolt that I didn't. "-- this is good beta

2) Also try hanging a rope off something and aiding it (rope for backup, don't lead it unless you've got a belayer &/or OK with pulling gear). Bouncing on gear will tell you what does and does not work and should give you the confidence/knowledge of when it's OK to go for it.

3) Physical difficulty is not the only kind of challenge. As you move out of your sporto-hood you may find the mental aspect of trad climbing to be at least as engaging, if not much more so, than chasing the grades. A little humility goes a long way here. Go jump on the Center Route (CynPinn)and tell me you didn't find it challenging...

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By wivanoff
Aug 8, 2012
High Exposure
matt davies wrote:
Bologna, although a great drinking toast amongst non-climbers (when you're young) Ocho-Ocho en toto. Gnarliest high altitude ascent of his day. Declined the greatest mountaineering prize in history to save the life of a gripped Hunza porter. Bold, cold, and old, Gunks legend, runout man, climbed 5.11 @ 69 in boots.


+1
Wish I had met Mr. Weissner. I had a brief written correspondence with him before he died but never met him personally. Still have some of his letters.

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By Nick Stayner
From Billings, MT
Aug 8, 2012
Nick Stayner near the crux. Ryan Minton photo.
Maybe this thread could be merged with the "falling on trad gear" one....

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By Medic741
From Pittsford, New York
Aug 8, 2012
When I was a bum at Frey
matt davies wrote:
Bologna, although a great drinking toast amongst non-climbers (when you're young) Ocho-Ocho en toto. Gnarliest high altitude ascent of his day. Declined the greatest mountaineering prize in history to save the life of a gripped Hunza porter. Bold, cold, and old, Gunks legend, runout man, climbed 5.11 @ 69 in boots.


I didn't know that. Thanks for the info, personally it tempers doing stupid things when that thought pops into my head, doesn't stop making attempts at hard routes/exposed lines. Lotsa history out there...

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By Medic741
From Pittsford, New York
Aug 8, 2012
When I was a bum at Frey
matt davies wrote:
Bologna, although a great drinking toast amongst non-climbers (when you're young) Ocho-Ocho en toto. Gnarliest high altitude ascent of his day. Declined the greatest mountaineering prize in history to save the life of a gripped Hunza porter. Bold, cold, and old, Gunks legend, runout man, climbed 5.11 @ 69 in boots.


I didn't know that. Thanks for the info, personally it tempers doing stupid things when that thought pops into my head, doesn't stop making attempts at hard routes/exposed lines. Lotsa history out there...

Decide what your goal is in climbing. Both ends of climbing have their advantages. Trad for the adventure and mindgame and sport for the movement. Think about what you want to get out of it.

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