I'm at the top, now what?
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Hey MPers |
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When I set up a top rope anchor on a sport route I always use two lengths of one inch climb spec webbing(Thanks Russ at Fish Products) sewn into a loop with 4 locking biners. I clip one into one anchor and one into the rope for each anchor. I have my biners color coded so I always clip the same ones to the anchors and the others to the rope. I like the BIG 1" webbing because it "looks" strong. Maybe it's just because I grew up using it. |
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I always clip in twice...one loose just to make sure I'm officially on rap or ready to be lowered. |
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When arriving at the anchor, clip a draw to one anchor and clip it to the rope. Then clip another draw to the other anchor & clip it to the rope, with the gate facing the opposite direction. Lower off. |
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Back up a little. The FIRST thing you are supposed to do at the top of a sport route is spray spray spray. This shows everyone you have mad skills because you are so awesome that you can rig everything up for a tr/lower and jabber on about whatever at the same time. People that just quietly work away up there are either still a little scared or flamed out because they just got worked. |
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More important than redundancy is the fact that the central locker in the OP's setup is being loaded in a way it was not designed for. It is called tri-axial loading and cuts the strength of the biner in half. |
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Mike Lane wrote:Back up a little. The FIRST thing you are supposed to do at the top of a sport route is spray spray spray. This shows everyone you have mad skills because you are so awesome that you can rig everything up for a tr/lower and jabber on about whatever at the same time. People that just quietly work away up there are either still a little scared or flamed out because they just got worked.LOL Except I sometimes "jabber on" because I am both scared and flamed out... |
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Well it depends on the anchor, but if it's just a straight forward, even 2 bolt anchor I just use 2 locker quickdraws. I just took 2 dogbones and outfitted them with some of the smaller Trango classic screwlock carabiners. |
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Mike wrote:When arriving at the anchor, clip a draw to one anchor and clip it to the rope. Then clip another draw to the other anchor & clip it to the rope, with the gate facing the opposite direction. Lower off.That's all I do... I just use two draws, one on each anchor, and have the gates facing opposite. That's your "sliding x" right there. Plus, if you pull the rope for someone to lead, they don't have to fuss with locked lockers when they hit the anchors. |
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mattnorville wrote:When it is time to clean the route I clip an anchor bolt directly like stated above. Tear down my set up, fed the rope through the bottom chains and either rap or get lowered down. Does anyone do it a different way and/or have suggestions to make my way better? -MattWhen at your anchor clip into your power point directly with your webbing, PAS, or Daisy, then untie, feed the rope, setup your rappel with a back up, take out the slack and make sure your backup (probably a prussic) is secure, clean and rappel. If your in your anchor you are redundant, if you clip one bolt you are not. Always try to rappel off the bolts as lowering off of them causes unnecessary wear. |
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Even though the point has been made that an individual bolt is very strong, you should definitely still clip the other bolt. I have seen sandstone anchors where one bolt can practically be pulled out and I have seen 30 year old, home-made anchors down at Shelf where I would not dare to go off one bolt. Keep it consistent and clip both, it only takes 5 more seconds. |
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Paul Hunnicutt wrote: You'll get a mouthful if you ask on this site about the sliding X versus just using two draws or runners.If you're using a sliding X and one of the bolts blows, the resulting force is shock-loaded onto the remaining anchor point, which isn't good. trad climbing, I orient my sliding X as it needs to be and then throw an overhand into the system to prevent shock-loading in the event of some gear failure. sport climbing, as others have mentioned, i just use two quickdraws at the anchor to lower off of or set a toprope, and only clip directly into the anchors if i'm cleaning the gear. Edit: just scoped out your profile - i've head a a clean TR ascent referred to as a "brownpoint." pretty awesome, huh? |
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According to the John Long anchor book, shock loading doesnt exist. There is no mulitplication of forces and if I recall correctly the same force applied to the piece that blows is applied to the other piece or pieces. |
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"Each bolt (if the rock is good) is good for @ 1600 lbs. per the bolt specs, which really means more like 2000 if you understand how manufacturers understate tolerances." |
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Aaron Martinuzzi wrote: i've head a a clean TR ascent referred to as a "brownpoint." pretty awesome, huh?That's pretty good |
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Britton wrote:According to the John Long anchor book, shock loading doesn't exist. There is no mulitplication of forces and if I recall correctly the same force applied to the piece that blows is applied to the other piece or pieces.i guess when i mention shock loading, i'm talking about re-weighting a piece dynamically vs. statically. here's my understanding - in an equalized anchor, each piece (let's say there are two, to be simple) is holding a fraction of the load. when one of the pieces in the anchor fails, the remaining piece has to now hold 100% of that load, correct? if that load is allowed to accelerate before it fully weights the remaining piece, even just 18 or 24 inches (half the length of the runner used to equalize) the initial force on the remaining piece is increased by acceleration due to gravity, isn't it? after the load accelerates (the climber at the end of the rope drops 18 inches or whatever), the remaining bolt catches that force statically. having an overhand in the sliding X would prevent the load from accelerating because the length of runner attached to a given piece doesn't change. correct me if i'm wrong, i'm interested. |
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Aaron Martinuzzi wrote: i've head a a clean TR ascent referred to as a "brownpoint." pretty awesome, huh?If you get it clean on the first try with no info, you can claim the coveted tronsight. |
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Mike Lane wrote:Back up a little. The FIRST thing you are supposed to do at the top of a sport route is spray spray spray. This shows everyone you have mad skills because you are so awesome that you can rig everything up for a tr/lower and jabber on about whatever at the same time. People that just quietly work away up there are either still a little scared or flamed out because they just got worked.Nice. Very funny. But paragraph 2 of your post here: mountainproject.com/v/gener… was funnier. |
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Jump! |
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Aaron Martinuzzi wrote: i've head a a clean TR ascent referred to as a "brownpoint." pretty awesome, huh?Thread drift. Actually, the brownpoint was coined by Rob Williams 4 years ago. I mentioned Dean Potters "redpoint" ascent of some route after multiple top ropes and rappel inspections. He said that sounds more like a brownpoint...soiled or stained if you will. Hence, the brownpoint is a lead ascent after you have soiled it somehow. I'm glad the term is catching on all though its meaning seems to vary. |
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Aaron Martinuzzi wrote: the initial force on the remaining piece is increased by acceleration due to gravity, isn't it? after the load accelerates (the climber at the end of the rope drops 18 inches or whatever), the remaining bolt catches that force statically.This would only be a static catch if the climber was anchored in using static webbing/material. Since the climber is actually held by the dynamic rope it would be a dynamic catch with an equivalent force of an 18 inch lead fall (9" above a bolt). This is actually the exact scenario we put our selves in every fall we take. The static draw/runner/sling attaches the dynamic rope to a bolt or gear placemen. the only element that prevents the "shock load" is the rope, the runner or draw is generally very static material. |