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By chris deulen
From Merriam, Kansas
Dec 22, 2010
Think it'll go?
Dudemanguybro wrote:
There is no such thing as a "local", we are all from here. Who cares about the wank-monsters of the future, glue it and keep it for the masses. Gluing holds is about as lame as welding big tick marks to them, which is as annoying as yelling "come on" every time someone moves, which is as dumb as sitting around with a bunch of dudes with no shirts on and 1 girl with no boobs talking about one move incessantly in between 2 second bursts of effort and calling it climbing.


Dude... Your comment makes little sense to me.

So, since there's no such thing as local, let's carry this all the way out logically. Can I come sleep on your couch and camp in your living room for an indefinable time period? No? Why not? I'm from earth, so I have right to the same space you do, right?

Next, you say "glue it and keep it..." Then you assert that gluing is really lame. Does that mean you advocate lameness?

Then, you stereotype what I assume is your observation of boulderers; that is, those who tick mark holds, constantly encourage one another, climb without shirts on, are with a usually higher proportion of male to female climbers, with the females typically having small (or no) breasts, while discussing the movement required to execute certain moves for only a moment. Did I miss anything? So, just to clarify, you think that:

a. tick-marking is lame
b. constant encouragement is lame
c. shirtlessness is lame (do you swim fully clothed?)
d. disproportionate gender ratios are lame
e. small breasts (or lack of breasts) are lame
f. talking about 1 climbing move is lame
g. climbing for 2 seconds or less is lame

And all of this is as lame as gluing, which you apparently advocate. I can then only assert that you advocate all those other things and are, in fact, in support of all lame things.

I also notice your profile is completely blank, which means you're either trolling, a coward, joking, or completely full of sh*t. Maybe all of the above...

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By Scott McMahon
From Boulder, CO
Dec 22, 2010
Bocan
chris deulen wrote:
since there's no such thing as local, let's carry this all the way out logically. Can I come sleep on your couch and camp in your living room for an indefinable time period?


I've been avoiding having an opinion on this thread, Doublecross and the Arkansas thread, BUT....

I've found that the term "local" has typically been used by people that are claiming "rights" to things that don't belong to them, like the ocean, rocks etc. Living in an area doesn't necessarily give you any more "rights" than someone that doesn't. Truth of the matter is this boulder doesn't belong to anyone, even if a resident's input has validity. Sure I have a vested interest in Boulder, but I have no more rights to the rock than the guy from Illinois has. I'm JUST an interested party. What if I move to a new place...am I a "local" now with all rights and privledges? This isn't Lords of Dogtown.

Like the whole "Colorado Native" thing. Big whoop..your parents had sex in Colorado. That makes you...absolutely nothing. You either moved to a place or were born there. It doesn't make you special, you're just a person.

Anyways back to the hold war. But pick a side people and stick to it, either gluing is good or bad. It can't be ok cuz it's a classic and then you rail against chipping.

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By Monomaniac
Administrator
From Morrison, CO
Dec 22, 2010
Insurrection, 5.14c.  Photo Adam Sanders.
Scott McMahon wrote:
I've found that the term "local" has typically been used by people that are claiming "rights" to things that don't belong to them, like the ocean, rocks etc. Living in an area doesn't necessarily give you any more "rights" than someone that doesn't.


I don't know about the other threads, but in this context, its more about "responsibilities" than "rights". Locals fight for access, locas pack out their poo/trash, locals organize trail days. They are the stewards of the area. Non-locals shit wherever is convenient because they won't be there tomorrow to smell it. It has little to do with geography and a lot to do with a given climber's commitment to the crag.



And since when did glueing become equivalent to chipping? I missed that day.

FLAG
By Scott McMahon
From Boulder, CO
Dec 22, 2010
Bocan
Monomaniac wrote:
I don't know about the other threads, but in this context, its more about "responsibilities" than "rights". Locals fight for access, locas pack out their poo/trash, locals organize trail days. They are the stewards of the area. Non-locals shit wherever is convenient because they won't be there tomorrow to smell it. It has little to do with geography and a lot to do with a given climber's commitment to the crag. And since when did glueing become equivalent to chipping? I missed that day.


True and well said. It would be nice if everyone was a steward everywhere they went, but that's asking too much it seems.

As far as gluing = chipping, my point is that you can't be ok with one type of manipulation and against another. I think everyone likes to blur the lines so whatever is most convenient for them works. Not to call out woodchuck, but the post about "it's only a boulder, not a multi-pitch" is kind of what I mean. What's the difference? You can glue a boulder, but not a route? So if the hold breaks, can you chip a new one or is that too much? I don't think you can rail against one and be cool with another because it fits your needs or perceptions.

Ethics is such a tough discussion because it's really hard to be 100% on either end of the spectrum, especially when it comes to using bolts, chalk etc. There probably isn't a perfect answer and someone will probably glue it anyways, at least until it breaks off entirely.

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By Jake D.
From Northeast
Dec 22, 2010
TWAL wrote:
A real nice video of speed but it does nothing to convey the size of the problem,you are really just sitting there with your mouth and eyes wide open the 1st time you see it.


True, but there are a limited number of videos of it. the FA vid is pretty crappy and shows no size, there is a side shot of Dave Whetmore doing it that shows the size and angle pretty well but not the small wafer holds.

There is a strong local contingent that will take care of things as they see fit and highly unlikely it will be influenced by anyone on here.

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By john strand
From southern colo
Dec 22, 2010
As a former "local" ... If you glue a hold back on someone will remove it and then you have a real mess. If the hold breaks off under hand pressure then maybe it was meant to be.
Tons of climbs have had holds break off and then get re-climbed.

FLAG
By DEF
From CT
Dec 22, 2010
Isnt Jaws a great example of this? Dave Graham gets credit for the FA on a great route, and after 2 (I believe) holds break Vasya scores another great FA of an even more difficult route, now Woods bags another ascent, I don't think anybody wanted to patch the broken holds, you just accept that the route changed under the natural progression of climbing and get psyched for a new problem.

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By clemay
From Boulder, CO
Dec 22, 2010
As another former "local," let the hold break and let nature take its course. Someone will eventually come along and climb the problem without that hold.

FLAG
 
By P LaDouche
From CO
Dec 22, 2010
Gluing holds back on the cliff is the first step/prequel towards gluing plastic onto the cliff. Its really really lame and gym like.

And I have no problem with a good glue job that is done by the FA party, after that it is pretty mindless and useless.

Only gym climbers think this way.

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By Jake D.
From Northeast
Dec 22, 2010
P LaDouche wrote:
Gluing holds back on the cliff is the first step/prequel towards gluing plastic onto the cliff. Its really really lame and gym like. And I have no problem with a good glue job that is done by the FA party, after that it is pretty mindless and useless. Only gym climbers think this way.


they aren't gluing it back on, they are thinking of strengthening it. Similar has been done locally at Rumney and Lincoln Woods and i'm sure plenty in your neck of the woods at Rifle etc

keep trying to make yourself feel high and mighty. I bet you've climbed and loved a chipped or glued route without knowing it.

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By Lanky
From Portland, ME
Dec 27, 2010
P LaDouche wrote:
Gluing holds back on the cliff is the first step/prequel towards gluing plastic onto the cliff. Its really really lame and gym like. And I have no problem with a good glue job that is done by the FA party, after that it is pretty mindless and useless. Only gym climbers think this way.


Quoted because it's nonsense.

FLAG
By Woodchuck ATC
Dec 27, 2010
Rock Wars, RRG, 2008
TWAL wrote:
That's a bit odd you say that seeing your profile pic is one of you bouldering.... (No slander just a funny observation)



Got me there....I'm not a 'boulderer' by profession, choice or goal. I boulder with nervous energy on any nice low rock between REAL climbs on sport or multipitch trad. Ankles and knees can't take the repeated falls/jumpdowns anymore.

FLAG
By P LaDouche
From CO
Dec 27, 2010
JulianM wrote:
Quoted because it's nonsense.


Youre right, gluing any rock is nonsense. For anyone to say "wow, this could be a great line if I glued it all up" is pretty silly. I have climbed some great glued together limestone/volcanic choss piles but the best lines are always on clean rock. Always.

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By Jake D.
From Northeast
Dec 27, 2010
P LaDouche wrote:
Youre right, gluing any rock is nonsense. For anyone to say "wow, this could be a great line if I glued it all up" is pretty silly. I have climbed some great glued together limestone/volcanic choss piles but the best lines are always on clean rock. Always.


your misunderstanding here is that they aren't changing the existing holds.. they are reinforcing it so it does not pull off. they are not adding, subtracting or moving anything. it was classic before so it will be classic after as nothing has physically changed.

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By P LaDouche
From CO
Dec 27, 2010
Jake D. wrote:
your misunderstanding here is that they aren't changing the existing holds.. they are reinforcing it so it does not pull off. they are not adding, subtracting or moving anything. it was classic before so it will be classic after as nothing has physically changed.


Its just my opinion anyways and its not my local area to bitch about so I'll STFU now. I hate it when Douches from across the country want to bitch about other regions ethics anyways.

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By Mike Anderson
From Colorado Springs, CO
Dec 27, 2010
When I said this is a local matter, I did not mean that you don't have a right to an opinion. What I mean is that if you do not live nearby and/or visit the area frequently, then your opinion is irrelevant because you can't take any action to enforce your opinion.

You could all decide that the hold shouldn't be glued, and sign a petition or whatever, but if someone who lives nearby decides it should be glued, and has the impetus to do something about it, then it will get glued. None of us would even know about this if it weren't for the internet, and 10 years ago, there would not have been a trans-continental debate, it would have been decided by a handful of (or perhaps only one) locals.

This is a perfect example of why people need to study climbing history more. There are numerous precedents for "saving" this boulder problem, but these "dirty little secrets" aren't often remembered by people when they glorify their favorite climbing areas. Did you know there are lots of glued holds in Yosemite Valley, even (heaven forbid) on El Cap!?

I've never been to Farley, and I don't know if I'll ever go there, so I won't tell those that do climb there how they should handle their business. I am somewhat surprised, though, how easily people will lecture other climbers from thousands of miles away about how they should deal with an issue. It reminds of Christian missionaries trying to convert the "savages"...it feels very condescending.

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By Trasgo
Dec 27, 2010
Mike Anderson wrote:
I am somewhat surprised, though, how easily people will lecture other climbers from thousands of miles away about how they should deal with an issue. It reminds of Christian missionaries trying to convert the "savages"...it feels very condescending.



Is this a joke? You are surprised how easily people will give their opinion on a subject when they can remain anonymous and their opinion is asked for? Really?

And if this reminds you of Xian missionaries forcing their beliefs on people then I might suggest you pick up a history book and learn how utterly ridiculous, uninformed and condescending that analogy is. The Xians killed far more people than climbing and continue to do so.

If people don't have drama in their lives they will create it. Which is what I'm assuming the OP was trying to do with their loud proclamation that the sky was falling.

If the locals want to keep the issue local then I might suggest not posting it on teh interwebs.

oh, and since someone asked...

Just break the fucking hold off and get on with it.

FLAG
By Lanky
From Portland, ME
Dec 27, 2010
Trasgo wrote:
Is this a joke? You are surprised how easily people will give their opinion on a subject when they can remain anonymous and their opinion is asked for? [snip] oh, and since someone asked... Just break the fucking hold off and get on with it.


No one asked. But your opinion is probably not noted. Mine is also probably not noted.

Trasgo wrote:
If the locals want to keep the issue local then I might suggest not posting it on teh interwebs.


Smartest thing in this thread.

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By Ryan Williams
Administrator
From London (sort of)
Dec 27, 2010
El Chorro
Dudemanguybro wrote:
There is no such thing as a "local", we are all from here. Who cares about the wank-monsters of the future, glue it and keep it for the masses. Gluing holds is about as lame as welding big tick marks to them, which is as annoying as yelling "come on" every time someone moves, which is as dumb as sitting around with a bunch of dudes with no shirts on and 1 girl with no boobs talking about one move incessantly in between 2 second bursts of effort and calling it climbing.


That might be the best thing I've read all year!!!

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By Trasgo
Dec 27, 2010
JulianM wrote:
No one asked.


By posting the issue to the forums on MP you are asking for and encouraging public input. What other reason could there be to post this here?

FLAG
By AWinters
Administrator
From NH
Dec 27, 2010
Red-tail Hawk, Buttermilks
Whoever is in the area and feels passionately enough about it to actually do something will take care of it, and life will go on. it's not going to be a majority rules type deal.

i say climb on it 'til it breaks, then work the new sequence- but then again it doesn't matter because i'm not going to do anything about it, are you??

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By Mike Anderson
From Colorado Springs, CO
Dec 27, 2010
Trasgo wrote:
Is this a joke? You are surprised how easily people will give their opinion on a subject when they can remain anonymous and their opinion is asked for? Really? And if this reminds you of Xian missionaries forcing their beliefs on people then I might suggest you pick up a history book and learn how utterly ridiculous, uninformed and condescending that analogy is. The Xians killed far more people than climbing and continue to do so. If people don't have drama in their lives they will create it. Which is what I'm assuming the OP was trying to do with their loud proclamation that the sky was falling. If the locals want to keep the issue local then I might suggest not posting it on teh interwebs.


Our opinions were not asked for, the OP posted this to encourage people to stay off the problem until a decision is made (by locals). This was clear in the OP. Then, far away imperialists, err, I mean climbers decided that these "ignorant", "primitive" boulderers were living immorally and started proselytizing....

I see you disagree with my analogy, but that's fine with me, I try not to tell other people how to live their life. Welcome to MP.

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By Lanky
From Portland, ME
Dec 28, 2010
Trasgo wrote:
By posting the issue to the forums on MP you are asking for and encouraging public input. What other reason could there be to post this here?


Um, maybe the stated reason: "Please do not climb on Speed until this is resolved."

FLAG
By chris deulen
From Merriam, Kansas
Dec 28, 2010
Think it'll go?
JulianM wrote:
Um, maybe the stated reason: "Please do not climb on Speed until this is resolved."


+1

FLAG
 
By Trasgo
Dec 28, 2010
JulianM wrote:
Um, maybe the stated reason: "Please do not climb on Speed until this is resolved."



It has been resolved. I went out there today and "cleaned" up that filthy route. No more loose holds on that block anywhere. Me and my wonderbar made sure of it.

Climb on!

FLAG


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