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small stoppers for free climbing?

Original Post
Jaysen Henderson · · Brooklyn NY · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 321

so latley ive been running into instances where i would like to have more smaller stoppers, currently i only have a 4-13 set of bd stoppers along with some boody but none the less a standard set. my question is for free climbing, is it necessary to have anything smaller than what i have (#4 bd stopper) i hear alot about Rp's and im not quite sure if thats what im in for? but i climb mostly in the Adirondacks and the gunks where gear can be finicky. also i dont know the differance between rp's and micro stoppers from say black diamond or dmm and ive alse herd of brassies? anyways id jsut like to be educated on the smaller passive pro thatd be great. i rock a set of c3's that im comfortable with up to the purple if that changes anything.

thanks for any imput im jsut a bit confused on all the stuff out there and which is the most reasonable. im 16 with very limited cash, what i do get from my terrible job all goes into climbing and gas. thanks so much

Jay Eggleston · · Denver · Joined Feb 2003 · Points: 21,326

DMM I.M.P.s!!!!

1Eric Rhicard · · Tucson · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 10,101

Been climbing with RP's since I bought two sets in 1978. They go in thin shallow cracks where little else will. Because they are brass they stick in places where a steel nut might not.

Jon H · · PC, UT · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 118

Brassies and RP's are very similar - they are very small stoppers and made of brass. Of course there are variations in shape in each model, but that's the basic gist of things. Brass is softer than aluminum (and steel like Eric said, but I don't know of any steel stoppers on the market) and so the rock will "bite" into it the same way that gritty rock "bites" into your shoe rubber.

The downside of this is that because the metal is softer, they are liable to rip right out of the rock because under enough force, they can deform to the point that they slide right out of the placement. These take a lot of experience and a very careful eye to place well.

I've got a a couple of RP's and a set of brassies and I'm in the Gunks almost every week. Drop me a line and maybe we can meet up and you can look at them and practice placing them to get a feel for what you might like.

To answer your main question, small gear is really nice to have on the harder thinner routes but you don't really use it on easier stuff. Speaking very generally, I don't think I've ever placed one on any route 5.9 or under at the Gunks. I'm sure there are exceptions, but that's been my experience. If you're pushing up into the harder grades or find yourself getting dangerously run out because you don't have small gear, then maybe it's time to start looking for some smaller metal.

Rick Carpenter · · Marion, NC · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 1,315

Ha I was passing an outdoors retailer in a small one stop sign town a week ago and picked up to full sets (black diamond) for 80. Dude said he just wanted them gone.....I'm still baffled at the luck...

Tparis · · Pottersville,New York · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 270

jaysen, we have a few things in at ems (exit 15) we have the BD stoppers 1,2,3 as well as the BD micro stopper set. stop in and check them out. -Todd

PTR · · NEPA · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 10

Just to add on here to the OP's question and follow-up on the Gunks observations above. How do the various options for small nuts compare specifically for use at the Gunks? Peanuts vs. IMPs vs. RPs vs. BD 1-3 vs. BD micro-stoppers, etc?

mattm · · TX · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 1,885
jaysen wrote:so latley ive been running into instances where i would like to have more smaller stoppers, currently i only have a 4-13 set of bd stoppers along with some boody but none the less a standard set. my question is for free climbing, is it necessary to have anything smaller than what i have (#4 bd stopper) i hear alot about Rp's and im not quite sure if thats what im in for? but i climb mostly in the Adirondacks and the gunks where gear can be finicky. also i dont know the differance between rp's and micro stoppers from say black diamond or dmm and ive alse herd of brassies? anyways id jsut like to be educated on the smaller passive pro thatd be great. i rock a set of c3's that im comfortable with up to the purple if that changes anything. thanks for any imput im jsut a bit confused on all the stuff out there and which is the most reasonable. im 16 with very limited cash, what i do get from my terrible job all goes into climbing and gas. thanks so much
All need to know right here:
Micro Nut Tech Info

With limited $$ I'd look for a sale on BD micros (steel) and a set of DMM Peanuts and call it good for a while. The brass stuff is VERY pricey. That review will point out that there are only really two sizes of brassies you WANT so save $$ and avoid buying a set.

Micros are LIGHT. You can cary a lot of them and when you need them, YOU NEED THEM. Depends on the route but I've also found you need to have a "micro mind set" to a certain degree. They can go in more places than you'd think. That said, most moderate routes have ample gear so micros won't get used as much.

They're good to have but examine you're rack first. That $100+ might be better spent doubling up on cam sizes first.
Sergio P · · Idaho Springs, CO · Joined Oct 2004 · Points: 185

The Kn force on many RPs (regardless of material) is usually below what is recommended for lead climbing. Same way the C3 #000 is "not intended for lead climbing". With that said, I rarely leave the ground w/o them. I place them when nothing bigger will work. I would rather have something crappy then nothing. I have even taken a 10' fall on the smallest BD micro stopper and it held. When I use them (a common practice in Eldo) I try not to run it out above them. Instead, I place it and put in something more comforting as soon as the opportunity arises.

If you are consistently running into situations where nothing else will fit then you should totally buy a set. I have a mix of the Metolius brass RPs and the BD micro stoppers. I like them both.

Joe Huggins · · Grand Junction · Joined Oct 2001 · Points: 105

I've concluded that all the curves and fancy architecture are just gimmicks.Tom Frost makes the best wired stoppers,with extra long cables-marketed as Sentinal nuts.I think every other wire pales in comparison;and,a tiny one held me on a twenty footer. I've hit the deck when RPs that seemed bomber sheared right through the rock,no sir...I don't like 'em.

Ed Wright · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2006 · Points: 285

Brass RP's rule. I took a 20 foot lead fall onto a #2 once and it held fine--good thing or I'd of gone another 25 feet to the ground!

mattm · · TX · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 1,885
Sergio P wrote:The Kn force on many RPs (regardless of material) is usually below what is recommended for lead climbing. Same way the C3 #000 is "not intended for lead climbing". With that said, I rarely leave the ground w/o them. I place them when nothing bigger will work. I would rather have something crappy then nothing. I have even taken a 10' fall on the smallest BD micro stopper and it held. When I use them (a common practice in Eldo) I try not to run it out above them. Instead, I place it and put in something more comforting as soon as the opportunity arises. If you are consistently running into situations where nothing else will fit then you should totally buy a set. I have a mix of the Metolius brass RPs and the BD micro stoppers. I like them both.
Because of the low kN strengths, I'm a big fan of micro "nesting" when I can. Plug in two or more and equalize then go. The brits have this down to a science it seems.
Sergio P · · Idaho Springs, CO · Joined Oct 2004 · Points: 185
mattm wrote: Because of the low kN strengths, I'm a big fan of micro "nesting" when I can. Plug in two or more and equalize then go. The brits have this down to a science it seems.
+1, really good idea.
Josh Olson · · Durango, CO · Joined Mar 2010 · Points: 255
mattm wrote: Because of the low kN strengths, I'm a big fan of micro "nesting" when I can. Plug in two or more and equalize then go. The brits have this down to a science it seems.
That trick has saved my bacon more than once. I like to carry a sling with three biners set up as a magic ex to save time in those situations.
Aaron Martinuzzi · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 1,485

Just about everything mattm said is pretty legit. I bought a set of DMM peenuts on a whim and they quickly became an integral part of my rack. For 50 bucks you can easily pick up a set of peenuts and some BD micro stoppers, although the DMM IMP's are pretty fucking awesome if you can afford them.

Don't listen to the haters, tiny nuts rule.

kachoong · · Atlanta, GA · Joined Jan 2010 · Points: 180

+1 on both the Peenuts and Ball nuts.

Greg Gavin · · SLC, UT · Joined Oct 2008 · Points: 888

+1 Peenuts! I'm not a big fan of the BD micro's. They have a shape that will bite well when set, but the overall design of the stopper is not as good as Peenuts. Peenuts fit more placements, and are easier to place.

mattm · · TX · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 1,885
Greg G wrote:+1 Peenuts! I'm not a big fan of the BD micro's. They have a shape that will bite well when set, but the overall design of the stopper is not as good as Peenuts. Peenuts fit more placements, and are easier to place.
Yeah, peanuts are awesome. The BD Micros less so. I'm working on a mix of stuff ala that article but with a full set of Peanuts. Micro Variety TAKES the spice OUT OF Trad!

Ball Nutz are the same way. When you need them, you REALLY want them. Again, if there's a need for micro pro, Ball Nutz don't weigh much and are STRONG for their size. The #1 hits 8kN I think. I've had some luck with tiny, pinned out seams where I couldn't get stable micro placements. Not enough taper in the scar/crack so the nuts just wouldn't sit right. Ball Nut worked well there. YMMV
Brett Brotherton · · Arvada, CO · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 121

I prefer the DMM IMP's to the BD micronuts, in the smaller sizes the DMM's are rated for higher forces!

Xander X · · Tucsies · Joined Apr 2011 · Points: 0

anyone have any thoughts on metolius astro nuts?

Metolius curved nuts set beautifully, but a difficult to afford. Seems that if astro nuts could be cheaply acquired they might also be useful.

Dustin B · · Steamboat · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 1,275

Astro nuts are ok, i have a few and sometimes they fit where no others seem to seat.

BUT

DMM Peenuts!

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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