Slap-slide vs. BUS method?

Done both, and have heard good things about both, but do you have a preference, and if so, why?

BUS for sure. You spend 90% of your time in the brake position with (P)BUS. As opposed to like 40-50% of your time in the brake position with Slip-Slap-Slide. More time in the brake position means more control of your rope.

I won't climb with you if you use slap slide.

Exactly what I have been thinking, but I know some stubborn people

Depends on the situation and the device.
Toproping? BUS, every time.
Lead belay with an ATC? Does the belay stance allow for a positive lock-off in the hands-down position? Can I give slack effectively from that stance?

I (probably) won't climb with you if you insist on hard-and-fast rules for problems that aren't so cut-and-dried.

slap-slide for hip belay and munter hitch, pBUS for most all other devices.

When belaying from above, use of a plaquette style device off the anchor and a modified slap-slide.

Hands free on grigri while rolling a fatty is my preferred belay method.

Sam Keller wrote:Hands free on grigri while rolling a fatty is my preferred belay method.

Me too. It helps me comprehend the uber complicated world of holding ropes below my waist. It's really some far out shit man.

I have no idea which one is which. I have 2 criteria:

• PALMS DOWN. Seriously. With every single device except (maybe) the AlpineUp. Palms up is a relic from 20 years ago and now we know better.
• Never let go of the brake strand.

Everything else falls into place if you can sort those two out.

As long as you're proficient, either one is good.

This is an ancient discussion topic. Here is an excerpt from my response from six years ago(!) at rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/fo…

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The palm-up pinch and slide method is simply a hold-over from the days of hip belays. It really doesn't make any sense for the operation of ATC-type devices, with a critical exception noted below. In all other case, it seems to me to be beyond obvious that the standard hand position ought to be palm down and and that when the brake hand has to be moved up, the feeling hand should leave the upper position and grasp the rope below the brake hand.

This is not to say that competent belayers can't do other things, but in terms of what you teach people going forward, teaching a method adapted to a technique that hasn't been used for more than thirty years is pretty silly.

The exception to the palm-down position comes when the leader leaves the belay on a multipitch climb, in which case the belayer should belay palm up until good pro has been placed. The palm-up belay corresponds to a braking position in which the palm is brought up to the chest in order to obtain friction from the ATC for a leader fall with the leader ending up below the device.

.....

Perhaps I should add that I now use an Alpine Up and half ropes, and with this device I find palm-up belaying to be very functional, because it makes the taking in and paying out of strands easier, more responsive, and more effective. The clamping disadvantage of the palm-up hand position is, I believe, offset by the assisted braking capabilities of the device.

Sam Keller wrote:Hands free on grigri while rolling a fatty is my preferred belay method.

So unsafe, you should hold the rope with your foot on it while rolling.

Sam Keller wrote:Hands free on grigri while rolling a fatty is my preferred belay method.

climbing friend killer,

Would you pleaase be rolling your fat one prior to arrival at the climbing rocks, myah? And then you may smoke from your spliff while you would be holding it between your lips, leaving brake hand free to make proper utilization of the grigri.

Assuming we're talking TR-belay here, I will teach BUS, and far prefer my belayer do so. I want a belay where the rope spends a maximum amount of time in the brake position, and when teaching a belay, I emphasize that unless the belayer is actually moving the rope through the belay device, the brake end should be in brake position.

I'm also ok with some doing a hand-over-hand on the brake rope in brake position. Don't prefer it, but am ok with it. (By hand over hand, I mean (assuming right-handed) the right-hand is far away from the delay device, the left-hand grips above the right, then the right lets go & regrips above the left, closer to the belay device. Especially if someone has pulled too much rope through, this can be easier than grabbing the rope below the brake-hand and then sliding it up.)

What I personally often do, especially if taking rope in quickly is alternate hands, because it saves a movement. By that, I mean start with left-hand high on active strand, right-hand high on brake. Take brake parallel, pull down with left, up with right; then immediately return to brake position. Now left-hand moves to high (near belay device) on brake strand & grips, right-hand goes to high on active strand. (in essence, I've just switched from right-hand brake to left-hand brake). Then repeat, but with right- & left-hand actions reverse.

I've done enough multi-pitch belaying that I've found I've needed to become comfortable belaying with either hand, since sometimes the stance/belay setup will make one far easier than the other. So, I don't mind switching.

I might be marginally stronger with one hand than the other on braking but, especially for a top-rope belay, that isn't going to make enough difference. And my off-hand belay is still stronger than many belayers' strong hand.

Can you translate this into english and then back into climber speak. I've been climbing for decades and no one I climb with uses these terms.

gription wrote:Can you translate this into english and then back into climber speak. I've been climbing for decades and no one I climb with uses these terms.

BUS - brake-hand goes to brake position, other hand grabs brake strand underneath (farther from belay device than) brake hand, brake hand slides up brake strand towards belay device, other hand returns to rope above belay device to bring in more rope.

Slap-slide - (I think) - after brake hand pulls out brake rope, it is brought up parallel to active strand, active hand grabs rope, brake hands slides towards belay device, brake hand takes brake strand to brake position.

(Pinch-slide - brake hand goes to brake position, other hand slides down over tope of belay device & pinches brake strand against belay device while also around active strand, brake hand slides up brake strand towards belay device, other hand returns to active strand high.)

Does that make more sense?

gription wrote:Can you translate this into english and then back into climber speak. I've been climbing for decades and no one I climb with uses these terms.

I think I forgot to take notes that day too.

alpinejason wrote:I won't climb with you if you use slap slide.

OK I learned this as never take your hand of the brake and maintain lock as often as possible. That said after googling this I won't climb with S,S,S folks at all. I prefer P,L,G,S (Pull Lock, Grab, Slide) but accept B,U,S folks and they are the most common around here.

brake hand never leaves the rope.

brake hand moves position on the rope only when the rope is in the braking plane.

both hands should be at a natural position for the belayer( i.e. not palms up.)

I am a PBUS guy all the way even when belaying with a grigri.

and IM talking top rope belay of course.

ok looked at more pics and I am a BUS hands down guy for TR. for lead I just unlock break and pull with non break then go back to break.

pinch and slide (i think this is BUS method?) for ATC style devices, slip slap slide for munter hitch. I think it is important to be able to belay both ways because, when using a munter hitch, slip slap slide is much more efficient and locks off the rope better. and while most people rarely use the munter, i find myself using it quite often, usually when i'm belay off my harness from the top or when I anticipate the possibility of a factor 2 fall.

unless my partner can reach gear or a bolt from the belay, or the climbing is super easy with low chance of a hold breaking off, i use a munter hitch to belay because i don't trust myself to bring the break to my chest in a factor 2 fall because that just isn't a natural movement.

gription wrote:That said after googling this I won't climb with S,S,S folks at all.

i think that's pretty close minded, and I have a few partners who have been invaluable to my experience and growth as a climber (people who have been climbing since the 70s) who use the S,S,S and have caught many of my whippers, including the scariest whip i've ever taken (a twenty footer on a not-so-well-placed blue alien). If you don't trust your belayer, just treat it like a free solo