skiing with an ice axe

Anyone have any tips on skiing with an ice axe?
The only methods I know of are:

1. holding a pole and an ice axe in the same hand or
2. just holding the axe in self arrest position in one hand and a pole in the other hand.

I can't say I'm a fan of either although if I had to pick it would probably be the second option. What are your thoughts?

And I'd rather not spend money on a whippet.

I've tucked an axe onto a pack's hip strap (there was a loop that holstered it nicely). I've also tucked one between the hip strap and my hip. Good luck with the self arrest by the time you get it into position. Better yet, don't fall.

I'd spend the money on not one, but two whippets!

Not sure I understand. I usually put it on the outside of the pack.

keep-it-real wrote: I'd rather not spend money on a whippet.

1 hospital bill > $ of 2 whippets.

^^^
You have a point there

When conditions are icy and steep, some people ski with an ice axe or a whippet ready and in self arrest position. It's nice to know there is at least a possibility that you could catch yourself in a fall (however small that may be).

I'm not asking how people store their axes while skiing...

On another note, any good stories out there of people arresting a fall while skiing?

whippets are the bomb. when you get one and use it you'll be mad at yourself for trying to ghetto rig some half assed solution all those other years.
i thought skiing with one would be weird/scary whatever. it ain't. you realize really quickly you are skiing with something potentially deadly in your hand and adjust accordingly.

Edited to add:
I'm most happy to have my whippet mostly on ascents. It's basically a trekking pole with an axe-like head on it that allows you to (hopefully) arrest. Yes you have it for descents too but like others are saying, if it gets to a situation on a descent where I would really have to self arrest, I'd probably down climb, find another route, etc.
I don't consider side slipping on your edges down some heinous slope "skiing" anyways and would rather rap, downclimb whatever than survival "ski" it and risk a fatal fall.

It is also an honorable death if you do end up skewering yourself with the whippet. They are great - you feel like you are in 4WD booting up steep chutes.

I've skied lots of steep terrain and felt that if I needed to ski with an axe it was too difficult for me.

My old Ramer self arrest poles saved my ass a few times on hard snow in the 40-50 degree range. I don't know if you can even find them any more.

I'm with John on this (although, I KNOW I haven't skied as much steep stuff...X1000).

Have you tried to self arrest with an ice tool with skis on, on a steep slope, with whatever set up your thinkin' might work?

There's a reason its called "extreme skiing". You fall on some terrain, you're going to die. Its kinda that simple.

Having successfully deployed an ice axe a very memorable three times to save my butt with a self arrest, there's no way I'd ski something steep (or icy) enough to need a tool to arrest a fall on. Maybe on belay, but, not even a whippet.

A friend who was skiing with Andrew M. on their descent of Foraker's Sultana ridge, asked Andrew at the top, "so, any advice?"

"Yeah: don't fall."

Closest I ever came to death was when I took a bad fall skiing a steep couloir. Several jump-turns in I punch through some sort of unexpected crust that sent me flying head first down the 45/50 degree rock strewn slope. I remember tumbling head-over-heals and punching at the snow with my fists trying to slow myself down to no avail. Eventually I awoke at the base of the sope with my ski partner bent over me. I said "did you see that flip I did?" - to which he responded "dude, you did like fifty flips." I had come to stop about twenty feet from an eighty foot rock step, and lost both of my skis even though I had "locked" my dynafit bindings into the non-release setting. My pack had exploded during the fall and I lost my skins, shovel, probe, puffy jacket, camera, thermos, personals, not to mention my ski poles. Somehow I escaped with nothing more than a minor tear in my MCL and a bruised ego. I bought a whippet after that.

I hate using an axe but when you snowboard there is no other option. Buy a whippet and then feel sorry for the snowboarders riding with an axe.

Kevin Landolt wrote:Closest I ever came to death was when I took a bad fall skiing a steep couloir. Several jump-turns in I punch through some sort of unexpected crust that sent me flying head first down the 45/50 degree rock strewn slope. I remember tumbling head-over-heals and punching at the snow with my fists trying to slow myself down to no avail. Eventually I awoke at the base of the sope with my ski partner bent over me. I said "did you see that flip I did?" - to which he responded "dude, you did like fifty flips." I had come to stop about twenty feet from an eighty foot rock step, and lost both of my skis even though I had "locked" my dynafit bindings into the non-release setting. My pack had exploded during the fall and I lost my skins, shovel, probe, puffy jacket, camera, thermos, personals, not to mention my ski poles. Somehow I escaped with nothing more than a minor tear in my MCL and a bruised ego. I bought a whippet after that.

Glad you're OK (more or less). would any sort of self-arrest tool have helped with the tomahawk fall you described?

John McNamee wrote:I've skied lots of steep terrain and felt that if I needed to ski with an axe it was too difficult for me.

+1

a no fall situation is a no fall situation. self-arrest is a skill learned because, hell, you've got to try something. but, i don't think you'll find many people who'd say there's a high probability of self arresting when it really matters. and, that's when the fall begins from a fairly static position. bring speed into that fall and the probability is going to decrease.

if you're on terrain that makes you feel an axe is necessary, don't fall.

bergbryce wrote:

whippets are the bomb. when you get one and use it you'll be mad at yourself for trying to ghetto rig some half assed solution all those other years. 

Yes, but if one were half-handy, and enjoyed janking around with duct tape and zip-ties... how might they anchor a light axe to their ski pole?  I was considering the whippet, but I like to have an ice axe with me anyway on winder/spring trips.  I'm not a hard-core skier, but will happily skin over steep passes.  I've had my heart in my throat a few time trusting my edges and ski poles.  I am also interested in ski crampons, but one thing at a time.  Thanks for the advice.

Use an axe for craverse rescue.

Use a whippet for skiing.

The whippet works for many things.
Self arrest (I’ve done it, and it worked. If I didn’t have it, I would not be typing this!)

Whippet also works for if you broke an avalanche, but we’re at the top to keep you from flowing down with it.  (A friend did this, and I saw the scary video.  It totally saved his ass.)

You could also use it to hook a tree branch, and extract oneself out of a tree well.

And lastly, the spike on a new whippet detaches, so you can have a “regular” ski pole, and only attach it when necessary.  That way it’s not a waste of money.

One other thing…..  BCA makes a avy shovel that you can attach an ice axe head.  It comes as a unit.
https://backcountryaccess.com/product/shaxe-tech-avalanche-shovel/

Ian Harlen wrote: bergbryce wrote:

Yes, but if one were half-handy, and enjoyed janking around with duct tape and zip-ties... how might they anchor a light axe to their ski pole?  I was considering the whippet, but I like to have an ice axe with me anyway on winder/spring trips.  I'm not a hard-core skier, but will happily skin over steep passes.  I've had my heart in my throat a few time trusting my edges and ski poles.  I am also interested in ski crampons, but one thing at a time.  Thanks for the advice.

If you're half-handy and enjoy janking around with duct tape and zip ties then you should be able to figure out something. 

Seriously though, just buy a whippet...they exist for a reason. Or just rely on your ice axe when ascending then stow it away on the descent - I don't see any advantage to having it haphazardly attached to your ski pole

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bq6zmuUAK2i/

check out the video if you want to see snowboarding with ice axes.... no screwing around with whippets on this terrain... 

Another advantage of the whippet is for icy, steep skin tracks where you could slide out, that’s a fall that is easily arrested with a whippet. I’m guessing what you are envisioning with holding the pola and axe is for short periods of side slipping in hard snow holding it in self arrest, then using the poles on the more mellow. I can’t envision being able to ski using poles while holding the axe, fall and then do anything other than stab myself somewhere along the tomahawk down. (Meaning I wouldn’t be able to transfer from holding an axe and pole while skiing to self arrest, not that holding the axe would cause me to fall)

Brian in SLC wrote:A friend who was skiing with Andrew M. on their descent of Foraker's Sultana ridge, asked Andrew at the top, "so, any advice?" "Yeah: don't fall."

I bet if you asked him that these days he would say:

“Don’t steal shit from folks who use lots of trail cams”