Silent Partner Leading...
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I've working with the silent partner and made this video to share. |
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Bearing in mind you've already acknowledged that you're not using the Silent Partner according to the instruction manual, I'll make my comments anyway for the benefit of anyone who wants to know the official method: |
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I've never used a silent partner, but i've done a bit of solo leading with other devices(grigri, ATC guide... these have the disadvantage of not holding an upside down fall) |
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I like that route. Its a good one. I also like the green one next to it, that ends up in the corner alcove... you know, the face climb to the layback 4 moves, match, undercling, throw left, match, throw right, match, clip and your done. Ahhh Boulders. Good to see you've been able to replace Vince. (kidding) |
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Well, it is cool to see a Silent Partner fall on a video. I appreciate your enthusiasm for a great device. |
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Excellent advice gentleman. I had not thought about rope weight on long routes, I'll try it out with a TR outdoors sometime. Perhaps wearing a back pack that I feed rope out of? Maybe using a thinner lighter rope will remedy this as well? |
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I've tried the backpack technique once. It didn't work for me as I was using an ATC in "autoblock mode" with a chest harness. the angle of the rope (coming from the side out of the backpack and around the torso) did not allow it to feed through the device as well as from below. |
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If you're lucky, Kevin Stricker or Richard Goldstone will add some commentary here, they're probably the most experienced Silent Partner users I'm aware of on this site. You can do a search for Kevin's posts on the subject. Nick Rhoads wrote:Hmmm...Perhaps I don't fully understand how to utilize the back up knot set up, I will check it out further. Thanks!I think the secret to success is to get very specific with your set-up and do it exactly the same every time. Then you don't have to wonder where the rope is feeding from, etc. Here's the system I use: 1. I clip the SP into my tie-in points (as noted above), with the anchored side of the rope on the left and the free side on the right. 2. I set up three backup knots clipped to the right side of my harness. These are clove hitches clipped to notchless Positron locking biners, hung on my front gear loop with the gates facing down and out. The first backup knot is nearest the SP; the second is to the right of the first, and the third is to the right of the second. Each backup knot has a loop of about 15-17' of rope hanging from it, which theoretically will get me as much as halfway up the pitch I'm leading (about 50'). 3. I start off on lead, making sure to keep my backup loops clear (not much different from basic lead rope management). Around the time my first backup loop has run out, I just reach over, open the gate on the first biner and slide the clove hitch up and off, then keep going. 4. Somewhere in that first 50' of leading, I can usually count on finding a rest stance or semi-unstressful place where I can stop and pull up another loop (or two) and create new backup knots to replace the ones I've already dropped. To keep things orderly, I'll move the unclipped biner(s) back behind the last backup knot before doing the new ones. Being able to do a one-handed clove hitch is a handy skill to have here. At that point, I'm probably in good shape for the rest of the pitch. Let me know if you have a hard time picturing any of this. JL |
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I've never used the Silent partner, but my understanding is that it is basically a rolling drum that locks up when shock loaded. Thus, it allows the clove hitch to run until it locks up at which time the clove catches. Correct? |
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You're not way off Evan but in that scenario you wouldn't be able to get down at the end of the climb with out trailing a line to rap on. |
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Would a Petzl Mini Traxon on slack end of the SP work as a backup instead of the knots? |
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why backup a device with another device? use knots, they can't break like a traxion can. also they're lighter. when soloing you have to expect that you'll have to do more rope management, after all, you are belaying yourself. |
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Evan1984 wrote:I've never used the Silent partner, but my understanding is that it is basically a rolling drum that locks up when shock loaded. Thus, it allows the clove hitch to run until it locks up at which time the clove catches. Correct? If I'm correct in my understanding, it seems like the device could be rigged to a directional anchor at the bottom, feed out rope and lock from the bottom. Therefore, you wouldn't be pulling extra rope up with you. Basically, can you rig the SP off the bottom anchor rather than the climber? Am I way out in space on this?I told myself that I wasn't going to say anything in this thread. I should have probably kept it that way. But you are TOTALLY out in space. The silent partner would not work in this set up. The rope doesn't move the climber and device do. Anchoring the device at the bottom will not work. Read the instruction manual...it's the best info there is on the subject....and it works well. Do what the manufacturer recommends..it works. There are a few tricks that some folks have adapted....such as putting the back up loops in a backpack. Little tricks like that work great without changing how the device works, and without eliminating the backup knots. The Back up knots are needed to manage the weight of the rope anyway. As are "rebelays".....tip: use a klemheist NOT a Prussic...it's a similar knot but it's one directional, thus allowing the dynamic qualities of the rope to still be utilized while bearing the weight of the rope. I use 2 locking biners and I layer overhand on a bights. That way I'm only clipping 1 strand of rope vs. the 2 from a clove. Overhands are strong and easy to untie one handed. One bolt anchor? Dude! Don't do that! If you don't have a good anchor at the base of a sport route....tie off the first 2 bolts. You *intentionally* whipped onto a single bolt anchor, with no backup, in a gym that's like 20 ft tall? Onto a device that is designed to have some slippage? I've done some unsafe things....but wow! No solo system is perfect. They are all more of a pain in the ass then climbing with a belayer. Get used to it, embrace it just don't cut safety out of the system in order to find your version of the "better" way. josh |
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Have you seen the manual? It looks like it's from the 80's and hand-drawn. It doesn't exactly inspire me that someone actually took the time to test the device. It looks more like someone wrote it simply to cover their liability. Which is fine but tells me I should do some safe experimenting first. |
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I did try the clove hitch back up knots on loops but I was worried the loops would snag on things. Perhaps the loops in a backpack will work. |
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Thanks for posting up the vid. |
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Thanks John. |
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Nick Rhoads wrote:Have you seen the manual? It looks like it's from the 80's and hand-drawn. It doesn't exactly inspire me that someone actually took the time to test the device. It looks more like someone wrote it simply to cover their liability. Which is fine but tells me I should do some safe experimenting first. Agreed, I could tie off both of the first two bolts, even better would be a unidirectional trad anchor at the bottom. This vid was not the first time I intentionally whipped on the SP. I took falls with TR back ups at first. Besides, anyone who has ever trad climbed has relied on one piece of gear alot. I'm not saying this set up is best or even safe. I'm asking for ways to improve it and that's what I've been getting thus far. Thank you for contributing.The way the manual "looks" has little to do with the content. Yes I've seen it, I own it(it comes with the SP). The device has been tested. The original designer(and his wife?) post online a bit, mostly on Supertopo. The is a lot of history with the device, it's been around a very long time. When it was first around there weren't internet forums. The testing info and rumors about the "holy grail" of soloing device's were word of mouth. Yes the loops can and do get hung up...which is why John and others will put them in a small pack. However they still tie the backup knots. Again don't cut safety corners for convience. I've mostly used the device to climb long free routes. When you climb a pitch longer than 30 ft you'll be painfully aware that the backup knots are dual function and absolutely needed. The rebelays are also needed. Without them the device will no longer feed smoothly. I use 2 Petzl "William" carabiners on my waist and leg loops. I do NOT oppose the gates(which is how the manual instructs) and I turn the gates towards my body....thus giving the SP a nice smooth surface to move up and down on. It's never been a problem. josh |
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Nick Rhoads wrote:Have you seen the manual? It looks like it's from the 80's and hand-drawn. It doesn't exactly inspire me that someone actually took the time to test the device. It looks more like someone wrote it simply to cover their liability.Nick -- I agree that the manual looks kind of low-rent, but trust me, the guy(s) who wrote it did so after lots of mileage on the device. They know what they're doing. If you read enough posts from climbers who use the SP a lot, you'll find that most go "by the book" with few deviations. Nick Rhoads wrote:I did try the clove hitch back up knots on loops but I was worried the loops would snag on things. Perhaps the loops in a backpack will work.I've never tried the backpack arrangement, but my experience with the hanging loops is that (once you get used to them) they don't snag any more often than the gear on my harness does, and such snags are easily cleared. John McNamee wrote:3. I carry long rebelays cords which are about 6 feet long to remove the weight of the rope on a long pitch. I generally use two per pitch. Like Josh said, use the klemheist.Rich Goldstone has a nifty solution to the re-belay problem. Instead of anchoring the rope to a piece of pro with prusik or klemheist, he ties a slipknot in the rope just above the piece. The slipknot then rests on the biner you used to clip in to the pro, keeping the rope from back-feeding, but allowing it to travel up in case of a fall. JL |
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This whole deal is seeming too futzy for my tastes. Mind as well go aid climbing... |
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wow, that thing with the slipknot for the re-belay sounds genius! i'm definitely trying that next time. |