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Shoplifting at Neptune Mountaineering?
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By Aric Datesman
Apr 28, 2013
adamx wrote:
I never went to school for business, but I had a part in starting a few over the last 10 years or so, ground up, including policy, all of which are still around and growing, so I'll help you folks that are sooo upset about REI's return policy being "abused" understand what's actually happening It's been said that 2% of sales come back as returns. From my experience, that sounds about right. I implemented a similar policy and saw about 1% come back through the door. Markup: Depends on the item, but I can tell you with outdoor gear, it is often HUGE. How do I know this? I'm friends with reps from many of these big companies. That $400 item you bought at REI (STOKED to get it for ONLY $320 with yer coupon!!)? They probably paid less than $100 for it. "Why do they have garage sales then????" Good question. You take your $400 dohickey, use it twice, get a cum stain on it and return it so you can pay rent. At this point, REI is out about $100, maybe $200, depending on what exactly you returned. People get stoked on these garage sales and line up early to get in the door. Your $400 piece of shit waterproof ski holder with goretex solar panels and blotchy white blemishes? They mark it 40% off and it sells within minutes. +$260 for REI. But wait a minute, that means.. they.. still.. made a profit? DING DING DING. This shouldn't be surprising - When you run a business you don't run it to lose money. So it's safe to say that by the time they sell off what they can at 20-50% off, possibly get credit from defective items, and trash the rest, they break even on that loss. Or maybe it goes down to half a percent loss, somewhere in there. So these returns are impacting REI sOoOoOoOo badly they decide to change their policy to recoup that 0.5% loss (half a percent adds up when you're counting in the billions, after all!).. How do you think their sales would do if they did away with the policy we all love so dearly? I'd bet they lose 20%, or more. But wait a minute, that's a number much bigger than 0.5%. HOW COULD IT BE? Perhappppps it's because they came up with a policy that.. MAKES THEM MONEY? Hey, that kind of makes sense. Same with the garage sales - It DRAWS customers. Get rid of either of these and their business would decline. Period. also "Why do you see "Return Every Item" on the forums?" Because it's fucking funny. I'd never heard that hahaha



Wow, Eric. That was quite the... Lengthy... Answer. Which completely avoided the question. So kindly, in 100 words or less, explain how buying direct from a vendor for less than wholesale is not screwing the company that employs them out of a sale at or above wholesale.

I'm waiting. On several questions, in fact... To which I'll add which company did you work for as a junior consultant to startups, and what percentage failed?

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By Ryan Williams
Administrator
From London (sort of)
Apr 28, 2013
El Chorro
Jack Daniels.

And you guys are both clueless. Do either of you really think that a company that does $2 billon in annual sales and gives $140 million back to its members every year (REI) really gives a flying fuck about what price their employees pay for gear? Absolutely not! They are a teeny tiny minuscule portion of the market. Actually, they don't even count as the market... because they have no expendable income... because they work for REI... which they continue to do because they get a good discount... which means they will never be part of the market!

I get a 25% discount on WHOLESALE price where I work (used to work). After I pay tax, it equates to about a 60% discount from retail. They keep going with that benefit because they know it keeps people like me working for them. They are more than happy to lose money when I buy stuff, because I work like a slave for a very modest salary. Additionally, I use the products because it is all that I can afford, so I am very good at selling them. It's common, the companies are OK with it, the employees are OK with it, it has been and always will be the way retailers and wholesalers work.

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By Ryan Williams
Administrator
From London (sort of)
Apr 28, 2013
El Chorro
Aric Datesman wrote:
Hell- while I'm at it... Hey Ryan- mind doing an ip check to see if Adamx and EricSchmitt are the same person?


IP check? What, do you think I'm actually working right now? Do you really think I have access to that sort of thing? It would take me five minutes to figure out what my own IP address was?

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By adamx
Apr 28, 2013
Ryan Williams wrote:
IP check? What, do you think I'm actually working right now? Do you really think I have access to that sort of thing? It would take me five minutes to figure out what my own IP address was?


Can I PM you a list of everybody who's ever disagreed with me on the internet since 1992 so you can see if they're all Aric?

I feel like I'm in clown school

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By Aric Datesman
Apr 28, 2013
Shit, Ryan... And I thought RC was run poorly! At least their mods knew how to click on post IPs to get users posting from there! :)

Joking, of course. Mostly... On RC mods could see the ip each post came from, and clicking on it would pull up all users who posted from that ip. Made troll-hunting easy.

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By Aric Datesman
Apr 28, 2013
adamx wrote:
Can I PM you a list of everybody who's ever disagreed with me on the internet since 1992 so you can see if they're all Aric? I feel like I'm in clown school


Actually, what I'm waiting for is you/Eric to realize that you just proved my point. Might take a (long) while, but it's all there above.

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By Aric Datesman
Apr 28, 2013
Aw, hell... Gotta go tuck in the little one so will miss the rest of this.

So let me spell it out for you (the logically impaired):

1. According to you, prodealing doesn't hurt the gear shop you work for / cost them a sale that would have happened otherwise,

Therefore:

2. Buying from REI doesn't cost the gear shop a sale that would have happened otherwise,

In both cases, the gear shop sees no benifit from the transaction, so they are indistinguishabe from the perspective of the local gear shop. Only 2 logical steps there, so not hard to follow.

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By adamx
Apr 28, 2013
Clown school.

How'd I even.. where am.. I was just.. looking for the bathroom..

...

I'mmmm just gonna go to the Starbucks next door. You clowns are weird.

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By MJMobes
From The land of steady habits
Apr 28, 2013
modern man
shit Aric, tried to change the subject for you bro, now you had to go off the deep end and bring in Eric, Obama ,REI and IP addresses ... dude, I could have 3 IPs minimum between my phone, work and home, maybe even 6 if you include my neighbors who leave their modems wide open.

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By Buff Johnson
Apr 28, 2013
smiley face
Ryan Williams wrote:
I'm pretty drunk after having just quit my job, which was ironically a management position at an outdoor retailer. I have to ask now, did I just read a page and a half of arguing between two guys named Aric and Eric? Really? GO MP!


Good thing it wasn't an argument between Aric and Aric

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By Aric Datesman
Apr 28, 2013
Buff Johnson wrote:
Good thing it wasn't an argument between Aric and Aric


Yeah, those are ugly.

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By Aric Datesman
Apr 28, 2013
Fall Guy wrote:
shit Aric, tried to change the subject for you bro, now you had to go off the deep end and bring in Eric, Obama ,REI and IP addresses ... dude, I could have 3 IPs minimum between my phone, work and home, maybe even 6 if you include my neighbors who leave their modems wide open.


Thanks, but frankly I have to disagree; open AP's and multiple devices makes finding trolls easier, not harder. Each one is another opportunity for the troll to forget which ip/device they're logged in from, and I can't begin to count how many I busted that way during my tenure at RC.... And most times people lurk for a while before trolling in earnest, which makes religiously sticking to this user/that ip an order of magnitude harder.

In any event, in the past 2/3 pages we've got what... An encouragement to steal from REI because they drive Mom&Pop out of business, a logical conclusion from that argument that REI is actually no worse to Mom&Pop than people prodealing, and Adamx= EricSchmitt. None of which has anything to do with Neptune's being ripped off, I might add. Not a bad day's work, so I'm headed to bed.

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By TWK
Apr 29, 2013
This is now a useless thread, a shameful waste of zeroes and ones.

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By Blake Cash
Apr 29, 2013
Only in Boulder would shoplifting cause such an earnest and heated discussion. Comedy.

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By Ben Brotelho
From Albany, NY
Apr 29, 2013
Epic free solo with a pack on
Blake Cash wrote:
Only in Boulder would shoplifting cause such an earnest and heated discussion. Comedy.


It was a felony, not a garden variety shoplifting.

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By The Phoenix
Apr 29, 2013
The Phoenix
Fall Guy wrote:
shit Aric, tried to change the subject for you bro, now you had to go off the deep end and bring in Eric, Obama ,REI and IP addresses ... dude, I could have 3 IPs minimum between my phone, work and home, maybe even 6 if you include my neighbors who leave their modems wide open.


Not to mention your ass... it's gotta have it's own IP address it so big.

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By The Phoenix
Apr 29, 2013
The Phoenix
I once rented a BC rondonee setup from Neptune... nice rig but when I brought it back with core shots cause it was such a shitty colosucko winter they had the nerve to call me and try to bitch me out over the phone... seriously I thought? shut the f*ck up, ptex your rental skis and be happy someone rented them.

I don't think I'd steal those skis.

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By The Phoenix
Apr 29, 2013
The Phoenix
I once rented a BC rondonee setup from Neptune... nice rig but when I brought it back with core shots cause it was such a shitty colosucko winter they had the nerve to call me and try to bitch me out over the phone... seriously I thought? shut the f*ck up, ptex your rental skis and be happy someone rented them. It was funny listening to some hippie kid trying to front on the phone.

I don't think I'd steal those skis, certainly not after I trashed em.

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By mattm
From TX
Apr 29, 2013
Grande Grotto
Not to wade into this mess BUT the ProDeal debate needs a little more perspective. I've worked at climbing shops, a gym and REI in the past. In all cases the Professional Courtesy Forms offered by nearly ALL manufacturers was encouraged by management. In nearly all cases the "loss of a retail sale" wouldn't have been an issue because the employee (me or others) probably couldn't have afforded that piece of gear (maybe smaller stuff but certainly not higher ticket items - $150 Sunglasses or $1000 Skis for someone making $8/hr and paying rent in the Bay Area just doesn't work). The overall view is that ProDeals are a form of longer term product demo and education that results in LARGER retails sales in the long run. I worked for an REI in the Bay Area full time for about 18 months. It was a smaller store and we (full timers) were expected to cover a lot of the sales floor (vast product knowledge). Our store would schedule regular vendor demos and, being a ski shop in winter, would send the "ski crew" out to the regional demo day (on REIs dime). There we'd test many of the skis and also get the season pro forms (earned via taking part in the manufacturers clinics). Because of this I was able to purchase skis for myself (other employees bought other skis etc etc). Back in the shop, we (employees) had a LOT more product knowledge, both from the demo day AND owning things we demo'd (not possible without pro deal). With that much larger knowledge base we were MUCH BETTER salespeople. Customers can often tell if you're making something up vs giving them true insight. Many of us could give real-world info and because of the ProDeals / demo programs we sold a LOT more product at retail. The same situation can hold true to varying degrees throughout the store. One "lost" sale of a backpacking stove because an employee ProDeal'd it can result in 10x the sales on the retail side when that salesperson says "I really like this one, it's the one I use personally". A decade after leaving the industry and my knowledge gained from ProDealing stuff STILL sells stuff - I might casually chat with someone in an isle while shopping and provide insight or recommend a certain brand of ski to a neighbor based on my experiences years ago.

-Another reason REI limits the employee discount on non-REI brand items has to do with customer service and in-stock availability. Depending on the vendor, re-stocking of items can vary GREATLY. REI has some control over their own brand but other brands are ALL OVER THE MAP. REI limits employee purchases in store to help avoid out of stock situations for customers

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By SendaGorilla
From Boulder
Apr 29, 2013
Aric Datesman wrote:
Aw, hell... Gotta go tuck in the little one

Someone needs to tuck YOU in! (is she more mature than you??)

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By SendaGorilla
From Boulder
Apr 29, 2013
TWK wrote:
This is now a useless thread, a shameful waste of zeroes and ones.

+1000
They are excellent at wasting space!

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By SendaGorilla
From Boulder
Apr 29, 2013
Aric, Eric, Turd, and The Others, Please spare us all who could care less about your pathetic ramblings:
mountainproject.com/v/rei-vs-m...
Thanks

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By bay
Apr 29, 2013
The Phoenix wrote:
I once rented a BC rondonee setup from Neptune... nice rig but when I brought it back with core shots cause it was such a shitty colosucko winter they had the nerve to call me and try to bitch me out over the phone... seriously I thought? shut the f*ck up, ptex your rental skis and be happy someone rented them. It was funny listening to some hippie kid trying to front on the phone.


haha, there is no shortage of Neptune-hate in the ski community either...

Another shop that sucks...

sarcastic remarks can get you banned at Neptune Mountaineering.

yeah, maybe a bit dated, but widespread hate for this place is still prevalent over in that forum.

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By David Sahalie
From on the road again
Apr 29, 2013
Aric,

If you are seriously worried about how prodeals and REI's return policy is affecting the outdoor industry, then you need to talk to a first-world-problems-that-aren't-even-mine counselor.

But I don't think you can seriously be this serious, but nice one calling other people trolls and demanding IP adress justice while winding them up yourself.

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By Daryl Allan
From Sierra Vista, AZ
Apr 29, 2013
Me and my Fetish I guess.. ;)
Sorry to drift back to the original topic here for a sec.. FWIW, I wandered into Neptune's several years back dressed very corporate, white collar-ish and was treated about as well as I could have expected anywhere. All my first timer questions about all the museum stuff were answered without any attitude, snobbery, douchness, etc etc, what have you that I keep hearing about.

Whatever,.. I sincerely hope they catch this furball.

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