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Shitty Anchors at Shelf Road
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By Ryan-Nelson
From Fort Collins, CO
Jun 1, 2011
NCCC
Would some please clarify the reason for the all the unwelded anchors at shelf road?

This creates safety issues for the person cleaning the route.

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By Darren Mabe
From Flagstaff, AZ
Jun 1, 2011
wham bam hand jam. Wrapping up the final moves of Twist of Fate, Oak Creek Canyon. <br /> <br />photo: Blake McCord
i personally like the smash links (aka repair lap link)...
in fact, a quicklink and a smashlink at each bolt is a good setup. though i would have had the quicklink on the bolt side, and the smashlink on the rope side.

why would you want them welded?

EDIT: working load limit is probably around 1200lbs for a 3/8" link.

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By Ryan-Nelson
From Fort Collins, CO
Jun 1, 2011
NCCC
Something unsettling about a smash link not fulling be smashed together.
A majority of them were wide enough to slide the chain link out. I would never anchor my cowtail to the smashlink to take my quickdraws off. (I use a runner through the bolt)

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By Darren Mabe
From Flagstaff, AZ
Jun 1, 2011
wham bam hand jam. Wrapping up the final moves of Twist of Fate, Oak Creek Canyon. <br /> <br />photo: Blake McCord
i hear ya.
i like to squeeze them down tight with pliers or vice, and eliminate any sharp edges. the plus side is how much material can wear when the rope runs through them.

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By slim
Administrator
Jun 1, 2011
tomato, tomotto, kill mike amato.
darren, the crappy thing about smash links is that they are a bitch to swap out. if you have them on the rope side, and you have a bunch of folks TR'ing/lowering through the anchor, they get worn pretty quickly. i generally use a pair of quicklinks at each bolt.

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By Darren Mabe
From Flagstaff, AZ
Jun 1, 2011
wham bam hand jam. Wrapping up the final moves of Twist of Fate, Oak Creek Canyon. <br /> <br />photo: Blake McCord
slim wrote:
darren, the crappy thing about smash links is that they are a bitch to swap out. if you have them on the rope side, and you have a bunch of folks TR'ing/lowering through the anchor, they get worn pretty quickly. i generally use a pair of quicklinks at each bolt.

+1 on the pair of qlinks, but could you not loosen the quicklink on the bolt side to remove the smashlinks?

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By Marc H
From Lafayette, CO
Jun 1, 2011
The Cathedral Spires in RMNP, left to right: Stiletto, Sharkstooth, Forbidden Tower, Petit Grepon, The Saber, The Foil, The Moon & The Jackknife.
I've rapped off of plenty of anchors like that. I've never had a problem.

If you don't like them, maybe you could bring some equipment down there and replace them yourself..?

BTW, if you clip your 'draws underneath the links, you won't create unnecessary leverage on yours 'biners.

--Marc

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By Jesse Davidson
From san diego, ca
Jun 1, 2011
n cascades <br />
instead of a pair of quicklinks, you can get the hardware store to cut you off a single chain link. Get them to make a bunch of them, it's cheaper than using two quicklinks

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By rock_fencer
From Columbia, SC
Jun 1, 2011
Myself placing a a blue/yellow offset MC to protect between Bolt 2/3 just post crux . <br /> <br />Picture credit goes to eric Singleton, and many thanks to Josh Bagget for the great belay.
that's a perfectly acceptable anchor. you shouldn't be clipping in to those for TR or as your lead anchor anyways. Rap only. Makes replacing the worn quick-links easier, especially when they rust shut and you have to saw them off

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By Darren Mabe
From Flagstaff, AZ
Jun 1, 2011
wham bam hand jam. Wrapping up the final moves of Twist of Fate, Oak Creek Canyon. <br /> <br />photo: Blake McCord
johnL wrote:
Sorry, I can't, ABSOLUTELY CAN'T, take anything seriously from a person who uses a "cowtail" to clean a sport route. It's like getting on a bike racing forum and admitting you still have a kickstand on your bike.

lol
priceless.

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By Darren Mabe
From Flagstaff, AZ
Jun 1, 2011
wham bam hand jam. Wrapping up the final moves of Twist of Fate, Oak Creek Canyon. <br /> <br />photo: Blake McCord
Jesse Davidson wrote:
instead of a pair of quicklinks, you can get the hardware store to cut you off a single chain link. Get them to make a bunch of them, it's cheaper than using two quicklinks

or better yet, a qlink and a biner!
everybodys got biners they could donate when they are worn!
clip and lower! this IS sport climbing, isnt it?!

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By Robbie Flick
From Denver, CO
Jun 1, 2011
What's wrong with the cow's tail?!

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By Ryan-Nelson
From Fort Collins, CO
Jun 1, 2011
NCCC
johnL wrote:
Sorry, I can't, ABSOLUTELY CAN'T, take anything seriously from a person who uses a "cowtail" to clean a sport route. It's like getting on a bike racing forum and admitting you still have a kickstand on your bike.


What's wrong with using a PAS for sport climbing? John here's your chance to SPRAY some more.

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By Darren Mabe
From Flagstaff, AZ
Jun 1, 2011
wham bam hand jam. Wrapping up the final moves of Twist of Fate, Oak Creek Canyon. <br /> <br />photo: Blake McCord
Robbie Flick wrote:
cow's tail

is that like a cowbell?
more cowbell!

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By Robbie Flick
From Denver, CO
Jun 1, 2011
I use a cowtail and a daisy, both with lockers...I don't own a second daisy chain, and don't want to trust my sole daisy while cleaning. I also can't justify the cost of a specialized piece of gear when I have plenty of nylon slings that work fine.

Might look like a dweeb, but it works!

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By Ryan-Nelson
From Fort Collins, CO
Jun 1, 2011
NCCC
johnL wrote:
Spraying would be if I told you that all the routes I climb are so hard and steep that they always have permanently fixed draws so I never need to clean. The truth however, is that after a few years, most climbers realize they just don't need to carry a bunch of completely unnecessary junk up every pitch. I'm not spraying, on my harness for every sport route I do, I have 2 daisy chains with lockers Prusics Tiblocs Headlamp Clif-bars (chocolate chip) Trango Shark knife A small roll of tape on a locking biner My chalk-bag is tied on with 9ft of 1" tubular webbing (two passes and a double knot and this is the perfect length)


you have a Daisy Chain. A cow tail is any sort of Personnel Anchoring System that ties to your belay loop. Correct me if I'm wrong.

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By Marc H
From Lafayette, CO
Jun 1, 2011
The Cathedral Spires in RMNP, left to right: Stiletto, Sharkstooth, Forbidden Tower, Petit Grepon, The Saber, The Foil, The Moon & The Jackknife.
johnL wrote:
on my harness for every sport route I do, I have 2 daisy chains with lockers Prusics Tiblocs Headlamp Clif-bars (chocolate chip) Trango Shark knife A small roll of tape on a locking biner My chalk-bag is tied on with 9ft of 1" tubular webbing (two passes and a double knot and this is the perfect length)


Do you really carry all this stuff sport climbing? It doesn't seem to jive with this statement..

johnL wrote:
The truth however, is that after a few years, most climbers realize they just don't need to carry a bunch of completely unnecessary junk up every pitch.


--Marc

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By Stich
From Colorado Springs, Colorado
Jun 1, 2011
Coffee after freezing our asses off near James Peak.
So that is called a smash link, hrrrm? Never had a problem with them. Besides, you are only rappelling or lowering off on them. Don't like anchors at Shelf? Go out there and put in your own upgrade hardware. If it's good stuff, everyone will thank you. No need to ask anyone, either. Just do the work and that will be that.

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By mattm
From TX
Jun 1, 2011
Grande Grotto
Marc H wrote:
Do you really carry all this stuff sport climbing? It doesn't seem to jive with this statement.. --Marc


There's heavy duty sarcasm there (johnL post). That crap is what you typically see strewn about a newer climber on their first outings outside (especially gear routes). The tape is CLASSIC.

That said, I've found a PAS is well worth it for sport routes. While I certainly CAN use a bunch of draws, it's less of a cluster for me to just use a PAS and locker on one bolt and then use on of my existing draws from the other bolt. Boom - thread, tie in again, weight the rope, check and then remove MINIMAL gear. No biggie. It's stashed well on my harness and doesn't get in the way. Easy

To each their own but the number of times I've seen people struggle to clean an anchor because they only have draws and often not enough makes me think the PAS is worth it.

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By slim
Administrator
Jun 1, 2011
tomato, tomotto, kill mike amato.
Darren Mabe wrote:
+1 on the pair of qlinks, but could you not loosen the quicklink on the bolt side to remove the smashlinks?


oops, i didn't read your post right. the cases that i am thinking of, the person put a smashlink at the end of a chain. when the smashlink was worn, it was a mother to take off.

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By Marc H
From Lafayette, CO
Jun 1, 2011
The Cathedral Spires in RMNP, left to right: Stiletto, Sharkstooth, Forbidden Tower, Petit Grepon, The Saber, The Foil, The Moon & The Jackknife.
mattm wrote:
There's heavy duty sarcasm there (johnL post).


That's what I thought, but I couldn't figure it out for sure.

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By Crag Dweller
From New York, NY
Jun 1, 2011
My navigator keeps me from getting lost
i never considered myself a very bold climber who would casually trust his life to sketchy bolts. but, if that's a shitty anchor, i am a bold climber 'cause i'd have no problem clipping into it.

so, yeah, that anchor's crap!

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By Jim Gloeckler
From Denver, Colo.
Jun 1, 2011
Not to condem the F.A. folks; but you should see some of the anchors on North Table at times. That area is probably one of the most used and abused areas in the state. An anchor that looks like the one you posted would be considered great!

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By Orphaned
Jun 1, 2011
Leaving the ground puts the climber at risk, not smash links.

That Shelf Road anchor is NOT 'Shitty'.

This one, however...

Hooks....
Hooks....

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By Ryan-Nelson
From Fort Collins, CO
Jun 1, 2011
NCCC
Willa wrote:
In response to all the "daisy chain/cowtail" shenanigans.... Yes, people have been using daisy chains as a personal anchor device for a looong time, but this is the future people. Daisy chains are for Aid Hanging. Those pockets rip at relatively low loads. If clipped incorrectly (which is easy to do), a minor fall could result in the total failure of the daisy chain in its function to keep you from plummeting to a quite spectacular grave. There are many different, safer, more efficient, and more useful options out there. Why use the wrong tool for the job?


Well Said!


In response to everyone's comments on the shitty anchor situation. I was simply asking if that is normal for smash links to be used in an UNSMASHED operation.

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By timt
From Wheat Ridge, CO
Jun 1, 2011
on lead, Mean Green Cody,WY
Speaking of shitty anchors, did anyone notice the draws on the pic?

2 quickdraws, no lockers, no reversed-opposed biners & no equalization. i see this at sport climbing areas often & how people want to anchor their own lives is their own business. just thought it was a tad ironic based on the thread title.

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