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set-up(s) for top-rope soloing?
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By NYClimber
From New York
Jul 6, 2012
Awesome slab climb right out of the water! Rogers Rock, Lake George, NY. Summer 2013.

Jeffeos,
Funny I thought about that for awhile now.

In my mind - and I could be wrong - but I don't really see roped soloing via 2 ascenders from a top rope much different than jugging on a big wall or cavers ascending a fixed rope via 2 ascenders as well. True - someone can argue that a fall while roped soloing would carry a little more 'energy' then climbing a fixed line - be it on a static rope or dynamic rope. However, my feeling is, if one has a 2 ft runner attached from their harness to each ascender - how much momemtum can one really pick up if they fell anyway? I ascender wouldnb't be any further 'out' from the harness than someone walking across a snow covered peak with ascenders on the rope in case of a fall into a cravasse - I would think.

I feel if a guy trusts 2 ascenders while jugging on El Cap - why would it be any diff using 2 for roped soloing froma fixed top rope?


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By Jeffeos
From CordryCorner
Jul 6, 2012
Young Good Free Face, 11b

Hi Michael,

I'm not sure I understand where you're coming from. No surprise as I'm not the sharpest nut tool in the mountaineering shop.

But a couple of points that might clear up what I was trying to say:
Having your ascention device to your waist means the rope is always at your waist too. A lot of climbing involves side to side movement (right?) and having the rope always at your waist means the rope has to move with you. Which is fine if you like that sort of restricted feeling.

To your point about relating soloing with ascenders to jugging. There is no comparison. I use the slings to separate myself from the safety system so I can enjoy the movement of the climb. After every 2 to 4 moves I grab the ascenders (spell check thinks I'm spelling that wrong, doh well) and move them above me. Make a few more moves and repeat. Simple enough and a lot of fun.

A dynamic rope is a must in this situation.

It's likely we're talking about two different things. I just wanted to share what I thought was a great system for solo tr climbing. It's all about freedom to move freely (or something to that effect)!

Enjoy and be safe to the OP


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By NYClimber
From New York
Jul 6, 2012
Awesome slab climb right out of the water! Rogers Rock, Lake George, NY. Summer 2013.

Well true - sliding the ascenders up the rope loose on a sling isn't quite the same as jugging per se - in-that the sligs are taunt and you're relying on the ascenders for upward pregression....


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By Jake Jones
From The Eastern Flatlands
Jul 14, 2012
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.

There are pros and cons to each. Like Jeffeos said, extending both devices with a sling allows more freedom of movement without having a weighted rope in front of you for every move.

The downside is that if you fall before you can move your ascenders up above you, you're taking a dynamic fall onto a toothed device. It is a short fall, but it's still generating quite a bit of force. Will it cause failure? Probably not, but it could damage your sheath.

I have found it a pain in the ass from time to time, especially on traversing moves, to have the rope in your face. I still prefer not having to move my devices up manually though. To each his own.


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By Locker
From Yucca Valley, CA
Jul 16, 2012
...

Single Mini Traxion attached to chest harness & belay loop. Occassionally I tie a knot below to keep from decking or if a ledge threatens, etc...

Otherwise I don't complicate the situation by messing it up with more shit...

I used to use a "Soloist" which also worked fine.


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By slk
From Reno, NV
Jul 16, 2012
me

Don't forget to load your tubes!
Don't forget to load your tubes!


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By NYClimber
From New York
Jul 16, 2012
Awesome slab climb right out of the water! Rogers Rock, Lake George, NY. Summer 2013.

do you think just using the one device is enough without a backup in case of failure ?


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By Jake Jones
From The Eastern Flatlands
Jul 16, 2012
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.

Michael Urban wrote:
do you think just using the one device is enough without a backup in case of failure ?


Yes. As long as it's on a chest harness- meaning that if you fall, the device catches immediately without putting a dynamic load on your rope via toothed device. The reason I use two strands is to have a backup and not have to do anything else until I want to rap. I can work the shit out of routes that are above my level this way.

If you're using a cammed device like a GriGri, then it's definitely ok, but then you're back to looking for good stances to pull slack through. That's not necessarily bad either though. You have to look for stances to place gear and clip, right?

It all depends on what exactly you're trying to accomplish.


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By Pinklebear
Jul 16, 2012
Pinklebear

Some Mini Traxion setups and ideas here:

www.gearinstitute.com/getschooled/item/how-to-toprope-withou>>>
www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/turkia/climbing/
www.highinfatuation.com/blog/talking-about-rope-soloing/


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By NYClimber
From New York
Jul 16, 2012
Awesome slab climb right out of the water! Rogers Rock, Lake George, NY. Summer 2013.

Thanks...the 2nd link won't open...


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By Jake Jones
From The Eastern Flatlands
Jul 16, 2012
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.

Michael Urban wrote:
Thanks...the 2nd link won't open...


You're not missing much. It's a guy in a gym anchoring the rope at the bottom, climbing up using a Mini Trax as a belay, anchoring at the top using a sling, and then rapping back down on pre-rigged Reverso.


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By NYClimber
From New York
Jul 16, 2012
Awesome slab climb right out of the water! Rogers Rock, Lake George, NY. Summer 2013.

OK< now it works! Thanks!


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By mitchy
From nunya gotdamn business.
Jul 16, 2012

I used one device , Petzl Basic for a long time, with no trouble. Like Jake says, the rope is nice and tight and there is little to no slack and it catches immediately. I weight the trailing rope with my pack so it's sorta of tight. I've since switched to 2 mini traxions and i use the setup in the first link, the Gear institute link.


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By gary ohm
From Paso Robles
Jul 16, 2012

Do you guys use a static or dynamic for solo top roping? I've read statements and "arugments" both ways. It seems to me it might make more sense to have a dedicated static line just for soloing, that way any extra "abuse" from the mini trax teeth is better absorbed in the static line and won't damage your nice dymanic.

What are your thoughts either way?


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By Jake Jones
From The Eastern Flatlands
Jul 16, 2012
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.

I don't own a static rope, so I go on dynamic. Although I'm sure a static rope, if for no other reason than lasting longer with this type of setup, would be beneficial, I still wouldn't want to fall on one even on a short, relatively static fall. I like a little give, and I haven't noticed any excessive sheath wear from TRing with toothed devices on my dynamic ropes. To each his own I suppose.


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By FrankPS
From Atascadero, CA
Jul 16, 2012

gary ohm wrote:
Do you guys use a static or dynamic for solo top roping? I've read statements and "arugments" both ways. It seems to me it might make more sense to have a dedicated static line just for soloing, that way any extra "abuse" from the mini trax teeth is better absorbed in the static line and won't damage your nice dymanic. What are your thoughts either way?


Hey, Gary, I use my regular dynamic climbing rope, but only because I don't want to buy a static rope. The real risk to your rope is any sawing action from the line being fixed when TR soloing. So, if the terrain warrants, I will pad a sharp edge.

I would imagine a fall on a static rope would be a bit harder, more impact force, especially with a few inches of slack in the line. Even with the rope weighted, there is a good chance you'll have a little slack, even though the Minis feed quite well.


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By Jake Jones
From The Eastern Flatlands
Jul 16, 2012
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.

FrankPS wrote:
Even with the rope weighted, there is a good chance you'll have a little slack


Frank is right. The only rigid part of the system is the actual belay device. Your harness, your body, your belay loop, your slings and biners all are moving parts that introduce play into the system. Even when the device locks up at your chest automatically, everything else from the device down moves. A fall of even six inches onto a static line that's anchored well with no give will jar the shit out of you. Good point also about the rope over a sharp edge Frank.


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By gary ohm
From Paso Robles
Jul 16, 2012

Hi Frank,
I was hoping you'd chime in. I have a dynamic rope to use as my dedicated solo rope. I also take stuff to pad any sharp edges. I was just thinking about how to make my system as bombproof and long lasting as possible.
The way I top rope solo there is really very little danger in a fall. I stay WAY below my limit. It's more a matter of doing laps upon laps.
Basically I'm relegated to 60 seconds, or if that's full and I'm feeling REALLY frisky I'll do Mouse Maze.

The advantage of being really out of shape is that I can't last too many laps. Anyone behind me won't have that long of a wait.

I appreciate the feedback, too, Jake. I'll stay with my dynamics.
THANKS!!


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By NYClimber
From New York
Jul 16, 2012
Awesome slab climb right out of the water! Rogers Rock, Lake George, NY. Summer 2013.

Thanks for the great info guys! I have read about the debate of dynamic versus static and agree with the above members as well. Static is OK if just rapping, jugging a fixed line - but any chance of a fall even if top roping - dynamic is the way to go. The forces on the body will be less as well as on the anchors, etc even if you feel a couple feet or so....


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By matt mcettrick
From durango
Jul 19, 2012

I like to use this setup
I like to use this setup


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By gary ohm
From Paso Robles
Jul 19, 2012

^This seems to be the typical set up. Though many people use the 2xmini-trax on the one line. Does anyone use a single minitrax on each of the two lines?? I don't, but the thought just struck me looking at the illustration above.

You'd be redundant on two different lines with two different pullys. I suppose you could back each of them up with another device, but boy that would make top-roping as cumbersome as aid climbing...


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By NYClimber
From New York
Jul 22, 2012
Awesome slab climb right out of the water! Rogers Rock, Lake George, NY. Summer 2013.

matt mcettrick wrote:


Matt yes I have seen that diagram - 'Mountaineering: Freedom of the Hills' book?

I tried that system as well and found it a PITA having to keep clipping in to those knots every 8-10 feet and unclipping the prior knot as well. Also, pulling the rope thru my GriGri 2 was a PITA as well, and required a free hand to do so - making it tricky IF one wanted to push the limits on a route and work laps big time.

I found that using a Petzl Ascension (or a Climb Tech) full size ascender on my waist connected to a chest harness with a Petzl Traxion device as a back up to work way better! Both hands are free to climb and the devices smoothly slide up the rope themselve with just a little weight tied onto my ropes at the botttom of the route.

Next I am looking at viable options for a ROPED SOLO LEAD climbing rig. Prob looking at using the GriGri for that and having to RAP down after each pitch from a single strand fixed rope to clean the pro - then re-climb the pitch again from the fixed rap rope.

Looking for any idea(s) or suggestions on how to best accomplish THAT endeavor. I'm looking to do this mostly for some slab climbs that I want to do....


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By david doucette
Dec 9, 2012
Top of Intersection Rock, Joshua Tree NP.

hi removed,

great post and i've followed your thought process and appreciate your insights. i'm an experienced climber and looking to do this in joshua tree. are you still using the ascenscion and traxion device? is this the setup you are using;

www.petzl.com/en/outdoor/self-belay-solo-climbing/solution2->>>

thanks, david


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By david doucette
Dec 9, 2012
Top of Intersection Rock, Joshua Tree NP.

@jake jones,

i like your system of using the ascendder as the primary and the minitrax as the backup on the second rope. it would seem to make the most sense as the teeth of the minitrax aren't really digging into your rope since it's the backup.

the petzel website shows using the micro trax as primary and backing up with the microcender when using two ropes;

www.petzl.com/en/outdoor/self-belay-solo-climbing/solution1->>>

i'm going to purchase the microcender as primary and micro trax as secondary and rig it like you did with the chest harness. for some reason petzel only shows the chest harness with both devices on a single rope; www.petzl.com/en/outdoor/self-belay-solo-climbing/solution2->>>

do you use any cross loading caribiners? i've seen the dmm mentioned on one of the websites mentioned or do you just use regular lockers?

thanks for any feedback jake that you might have.

david


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By JohnnyG
Dec 9, 2012

David - please let us know how well that microcender works


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