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science of pump?
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Oct 19, 2012
I have to choose a project for microboilogy. Naturally I'm choosing to study lactic acid fermintation.

I'm here for help! I've browsed online and found some usefull stuff, however I thought it would be better to go straight to the source.

Anything is appreciated, thanks!
Matt J
From Bozeman, Montana
Joined May 26, 2010
26 points
Oct 19, 2012
What do you want to know about it that isn't readily available online? C'est La Vie
Joined Jul 19, 2010
35 points
Oct 19, 2012
The West Desert...it's not just for climbing, suck...
Matt J wrote:
I have to choose a project for microboilogy. Naturally I'm choosing to study lactic acid fermintation. I'm here for help! I've browsed online and found some usefull stuff, however I thought it would be better to go straight to the source. Anything is appreciated, thanks!

Is this a troll? What is lactic acid "fermintation"? How is a blood pump related to micro?
Aerili
From Salt Lake City, UT
Joined Mar 5, 2007
2,516 points
Oct 20, 2012
Rrrrr
Typically Clostridrium just shoots out of my fingernails because I pull so hard. It's actually pretty cool.


Give MicrobeWiki a peek, but that's more focused on species than process.
Buff Johnson
Joined Dec 19, 2005
1,499 points
Oct 20, 2012
At the matching crux
I don't know the first thing about the "science of pump." All I have to offer is the very serious advice to do a better proofreading job on your final paper than the job you did on your post here.

Also, has anyone petitioned APA yet to get a dedicated citation type specifically for mountainproject?
Jon H
From Boulder
Joined Nov 24, 2009
98 points
Oct 20, 2012
mmmm....tree
not a bad name for a route Joe Huggins
From Grand Junction
Joined Oct 4, 2001
177 points
Oct 20, 2012
Haters!

Gimme a break, I'm typin all this on my damn cell phone. Hence the bad grammer and punctuation. Thanks for the unnecessary insults! I'm no troll.

Your arms perform anaerobic respiration, aka fermintation. In the absence of 02 they create lactic acid, that's what gets you pumped!

Thanks buff, ill check out microwiki.
Matt J
From Bozeman, Montana
Joined May 26, 2010
26 points
Oct 20, 2012
yaak crack Red Rock Canyon, NV
climBing hard and over griPPing getz me pumped. Not no fermintations. Jon Zucco
From Denver, CO
Joined Aug 15, 2008
357 points
Oct 20, 2012
Thanks will, ill check that out.

I really don't want to argue with people on here, so I'm not.
Matt J
From Bozeman, Montana
Joined May 26, 2010
26 points
Oct 20, 2012
Middle
Jon Zucco wrote:
climBing hard and over griPPing getz me pumped. Not no fermintations.


Fermentations get me krunk!
Ray Pinpillage
From West Egg
Joined Jul 23, 2010
130 points
Oct 20, 2012
yaak crack Red Rock Canyon, NV
Ray Pinpillage wrote:
Fermentations get me krunk!


Fermentations get me drunk.
Jon Zucco
From Denver, CO
Joined Aug 15, 2008
357 points
Oct 20, 2012
When I was a bum at Frey
+1 will anglin. Well played sir Medic741
From Pittsford, New York
Joined Apr 1, 2012
48 points
Oct 20, 2012
So lactic acid production and fermentation are both mechanisms that avoid the TCA cycle and the electron transport chain. However, they are not the same thing. We produce lactic acid... we do not ferment anything. Fermentation is the production of ethanol from pyruvate. Yeast ferments... hence alcohol. The reason you build up lactic acid is because muscles don't have oxygen. When they do not have oxygen, the electron transport chain is inhibited, thus backing up respiration. Pyruvate is not imported into the mitochondria and the it is processed into lactic acid. This provides gets rid of pyruvate but doesn't produce much energy, where as the TCA cycle and respiratory chain produces like ~28 ATP molecules. Lot out there in weight lifting field about this stuff.

More importantly, you spelled grammar with an "er" when you were tell us you where sending messages from your phone.
CareBear
From SLC, UT
Joined Jun 3, 2011
1 points
Oct 20, 2012
Whoever this guy is, he's just plain irresponsible...
Joe Huggins wrote:
not a bad name for a route



+1!
rogerbenton
Joined Sep 5, 2011
262 points
Oct 20, 2012
Me and Spearhead
carebear is correct, lactic acid fermentation is a possible end stage of the glycolitic pathway but is a separate mechanism.
I still have no idea what the OP was hoping to get from MP feedback though.
IMO taking a look at few of the theoretical possibilities of muscular fatigue would be more interesting or perhaps more of a holistic picture of what happens when you "pump out". Unless you're only interested in the actual mechanism behind the sensation of being pumped.
Brent Apgar
From Out of the Loop
Joined Oct 20, 2007
143 points
Oct 20, 2012
CareBear wrote:
So lactic acid production and fermentation are both mechanisms that avoid the TCA cycle and the electron transport chain. However, they are not the same thing. We produce lactic acid... we do not ferment anything. Fermentation is the production of ethanol from pyruvate. Yeast ferments... hence alcohol. The reason you build up lactic acid is because muscles don't have oxygen. When they do not have oxygen, the electron transport chain is inhibited, thus backing up respiration. Pyruvate is not imported into the mitochondria and the it is processed into lactic acid. This provides gets rid of pyruvate but doesn't produce much energy, where as the TCA cycle and respiratory chain produces like ~28 ATP molecules. Lot out there in weight lifting field about this stuff. More importantly, you spelled grammar with an "er" when you were tell us you where sending messages from your phone.


Perhaps it would be of interest to OP as to why lactic acid needs to be formed (or ethanol in fermentation). Pyruvate itself doesn't pose any threat to the cell, but the cell possesses a limited about of NAD+. During glycolysis NAD+ is reduced to NADH. In order for glycolysis to continue in anaerobic conditions, pyruvate must be reduced to lactic acid in order to get NAD+ back.
C'est La Vie
Joined Jul 19, 2010
35 points
Oct 21, 2012
Matt J wrote:
I have to choose a project for microboilogy. Naturally I'm choosing to study lactic acid fermintation.



I would think studying malolactic fermentation would be a much better topic.
Allen Corneau
From Houston, TX
Joined May 6, 2008
91 points
Oct 21, 2012
Obi Wan Ryobi - Darth Vader Crag, Rumney NH
Wait...so when I get pumped it means my muscles are fermenting? No wonder I always fall off and feel strange... Brendan Blanchard
From Boulder, CO
Joined Oct 18, 2010
310 points
Oct 21, 2012
Wait...so when I get pumped it means my muscles are fermenting? No wonder I always fall off and feel strange...

...and want a beer.

No, really, you should study Lance Armstrong. He's retired and probably not doing anything right now. Apparently his body is an anomaly and doesn't product lactic acid and that's how he kept winning the Tour with a VO2/max of 82 without using EPO. I've had "The Science of Lance Armstrong" on hold on my Netflix cue for a decade. I'm sure it will come out soon.
steve edwards
From SLC, UT
Joined May 3, 2004
551 points
Oct 21, 2012
Mathematical!
steve edwards wrote:
Apparently his body is an anomaly and doesn't product lactic acid and that's how he kept winning the Tour...


Yeah, I'm sure it had nothing to do with the drugs.
Finn the Human
From The Land of Ooo
Joined Jul 11, 2008
123 points
Oct 21, 2012
steve edwards wrote:
Wait...so when I get pumped it means my muscles are fermenting? No wonder I always fall off and feel strange... ...and want a beer. No, really, you should study Lance Armstrong. He's retired and probably not doing anything right now. Apparently his body is an anomaly and doesn't product lactic acid and that's how he kept winning the Tour with a VO2/max of 82 without using EPO. I've had "The Science of Lance Armstrong" on hold on my Netflix cue for a decade. I'm sure it will come out soon.


Have you checked out the news lately? Apparently Lance was the king of the dopers. Google that shit. You don't have to believe all the lies he fed everyone for all these years.
Jonas Salk
Joined Apr 28, 2008
20 points
Oct 21, 2012
Devin Krevetski
From West Woodstock, VT
Joined May 3, 2008
57 points
Oct 21, 2012
The West Desert...it's not just for climbing, suck...
Will Anglin wrote:
It isn't so much the "lactic acid" it is the H ions (that are left after the LA breaks down into Lactate and a H ion) that create an acidic environment and prevent the myosin heads from detaching from the actin. You will notice that when you are pumped the muscle feels hard, this is because your myosin heads cannot release to ready themselves for another contraction. When you are pumped, it is not so much that you can't grip and flex your forearm, it is that you can't 'ungrip'.

New research has shown that H+ ions don't seem to interfere with contractile properties at true body temperatures, so this theory is quite questionable these days.

And your "ungripping" statement was just....weird. I have no idea where you came up with that. It was believed that acidosis prevented myosin and actin from binding and pulling "in", not the other way around.


Hey OP: muscle pump is due to occluded blood volume in the muscle due to exercise. Exercising muscles trap the blood from being returned back to the heart by occluding the veins. Look that up.

I still fail to see how this relates to microbiology at all. This is an exercise physiology topic. Maybe you should review what your class is actually about.
Aerili
From Salt Lake City, UT
Joined Mar 5, 2007
2,516 points
Oct 22, 2012
Aerili wrote:
New research has shown that H+ ions don't seem to interfere with contractile properties at true body temperatures, so this theory is quite questionable these days. And your "ungripping" statement was just....weird. I have no idea where you came up with that. It was believed that acidosis prevented myosin and actin from binding and pulling "in", not the other way around. Hey OP: muscle pump is due to occluded blood volume in the muscle due to exercise. Exercising muscles trap the blood from being returned back to the heart by occluding the veins. Look that up. I still fail to see how this relates to microbiology at all. This is an exercise physiology topic. Maybe you should review what your class is actually about.


Aerili, you seem to know a lot about a lot of science-y, climb-y things. But you're very mean. Maybe you could be a bit more constructive with your comments? I like reading your posts, but they always seem so pretentious.
Howrad McGreehan
Joined Sep 25, 2012
4 points
Oct 22, 2012
Colonel Mustard
True, but good luck on that! Colonel Mustard
Joined Sep 13, 2005
1,382 points
Oct 22, 2012
Lance Armstrong doped!?!? I'm shocked! Shocked, I say! Round up the usual suspects. steve edwards
From SLC, UT
Joined May 3, 2004
551 points


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