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science of pump?
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By Matt J
From Bozeman, Montana
Oct 19, 2012

I have to choose a project for microboilogy. Naturally I'm choosing to study lactic acid fermintation.

I'm here for help! I've browsed online and found some usefull stuff, however I thought it would be better to go straight to the source.

Anything is appreciated, thanks!


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By C'est La Vie
Oct 19, 2012

What do you want to know about it that isn't readily available online?


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By Aerili
From Salt Lake City, UT
Oct 19, 2012
Get down from there! <br /> <br />May 2013 <br />Photo by Duc

Matt J wrote:
I have to choose a project for microboilogy. Naturally I'm choosing to study lactic acid fermintation. I'm here for help! I've browsed online and found some usefull stuff, however I thought it would be better to go straight to the source. Anything is appreciated, thanks!

Is this a troll? What is lactic acid "fermintation"? How is a blood pump related to micro?


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By Buff Johnson
Oct 20, 2012
smiley face

Typically Clostridrium just shoots out of my fingernails because I pull so hard. It's actually pretty cool.


Give MicrobeWiki a peek, but that's more focused on species than process.


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By Jon H
From Boulder
Oct 20, 2012
At the matching crux

I don't know the first thing about the "science of pump." All I have to offer is the very serious advice to do a better proofreading job on your final paper than the job you did on your post here.

Also, has anyone petitioned APA yet to get a dedicated citation type specifically for mountainproject?


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By Joe Huggins
From 666 Rue le Jour-Edge City
Oct 20, 2012
mmmm....tree

not a bad name for a route


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By Matt J
From Bozeman, Montana
Oct 20, 2012

Haters!

Gimme a break, I'm typin all this on my damn cell phone. Hence the bad grammer and punctuation. Thanks for the unnecessary insults! I'm no troll.

Your arms perform anaerobic respiration, aka fermintation. In the absence of 02 they create lactic acid, that's what gets you pumped!

Thanks buff, ill check out microwiki.


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By Jon Zucco
From Denver, CO
Oct 20, 2012
yaak crack Red Rock Canyon, NV

climBing hard and over griPPing getz me pumped. Not no fermintations.


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By Matt J
From Bozeman, Montana
Oct 20, 2012

Thanks will, ill check that out.

I really don't want to argue with people on here, so I'm not.


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By Ray Pinpillage
From West Egg
Oct 20, 2012
Cleo's Needle

Jon Zucco wrote:
climBing hard and over griPPing getz me pumped. Not no fermintations.


Fermentations get me krunk!


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By Jon Zucco
From Denver, CO
Oct 20, 2012
yaak crack Red Rock Canyon, NV

Ray Pinpillage wrote:
Fermentations get me krunk!


Fermentations get me drunk.


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By Medic741
From Pittsford, New York
Oct 20, 2012
When I was a bum at Frey

+1 will anglin. Well played sir


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By CareBear
From SLC, UT
Oct 20, 2012

So lactic acid production and fermentation are both mechanisms that avoid the TCA cycle and the electron transport chain. However, they are not the same thing. We produce lactic acid... we do not ferment anything. Fermentation is the production of ethanol from pyruvate. Yeast ferments... hence alcohol. The reason you build up lactic acid is because muscles don't have oxygen. When they do not have oxygen, the electron transport chain is inhibited, thus backing up respiration. Pyruvate is not imported into the mitochondria and the it is processed into lactic acid. This provides gets rid of pyruvate but doesn't produce much energy, where as the TCA cycle and respiratory chain produces like ~28 ATP molecules. Lot out there in weight lifting field about this stuff.

More importantly, you spelled grammar with an "er" when you were tell us you where sending messages from your phone.


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By rogerbenton
Oct 20, 2012
Whoever this guy is, he's just plain irresponsible.

Joe Huggins wrote:
not a bad name for a route



+1!


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By Brent Apgar
From Out of the Loop
Oct 20, 2012
Me and Spearhead

carebear is correct, lactic acid fermentation is a possible end stage of the glycolitic pathway but is a separate mechanism.
I still have no idea what the OP was hoping to get from MP feedback though.
IMO taking a look at few of the theoretical possibilities of muscular fatigue would be more interesting or perhaps more of a holistic picture of what happens when you "pump out". Unless you're only interested in the actual mechanism behind the sensation of being pumped.


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By C'est La Vie
Oct 20, 2012

CareBear wrote:
So lactic acid production and fermentation are both mechanisms that avoid the TCA cycle and the electron transport chain. However, they are not the same thing. We produce lactic acid... we do not ferment anything. Fermentation is the production of ethanol from pyruvate. Yeast ferments... hence alcohol. The reason you build up lactic acid is because muscles don't have oxygen. When they do not have oxygen, the electron transport chain is inhibited, thus backing up respiration. Pyruvate is not imported into the mitochondria and the it is processed into lactic acid. This provides gets rid of pyruvate but doesn't produce much energy, where as the TCA cycle and respiratory chain produces like ~28 ATP molecules. Lot out there in weight lifting field about this stuff. More importantly, you spelled grammar with an "er" when you were tell us you where sending messages from your phone.


Perhaps it would be of interest to OP as to why lactic acid needs to be formed (or ethanol in fermentation). Pyruvate itself doesn't pose any threat to the cell, but the cell possesses a limited about of NAD+. During glycolysis NAD+ is reduced to NADH. In order for glycolysis to continue in anaerobic conditions, pyruvate must be reduced to lactic acid in order to get NAD+ back.


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By Allen Corneau
From Houston, TX
Oct 21, 2012

Matt J wrote:
I have to choose a project for microboilogy. Naturally I'm choosing to study lactic acid fermintation.



I would think studying malolactic fermentation would be a much better topic.


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By Brendan Blanchard
From Strafford, NH
Oct 21, 2012
Obi Wan Ryobi - Darth Vader Crag, Rumney NH

Wait...so when I get pumped it means my muscles are fermenting? No wonder I always fall off and feel strange...


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By steve edwards
From SLC, UT
Oct 21, 2012

Wait...so when I get pumped it means my muscles are fermenting? No wonder I always fall off and feel strange...

...and want a beer.

No, really, you should study Lance Armstrong. He's retired and probably not doing anything right now. Apparently his body is an anomaly and doesn't product lactic acid and that's how he kept winning the Tour with a VO2/max of 82 without using EPO. I've had "The Science of Lance Armstrong" on hold on my Netflix cue for a decade. I'm sure it will come out soon.


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By Finn the Human
From The Land of Ooo
Oct 21, 2012
Mathematical!

steve edwards wrote:
Apparently his body is an anomaly and doesn't product lactic acid and that's how he kept winning the Tour...


Yeah, I'm sure it had nothing to do with the drugs.


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By Jonas Salk
Oct 21, 2012

steve edwards wrote:
Wait...so when I get pumped it means my muscles are fermenting? No wonder I always fall off and feel strange... ...and want a beer. No, really, you should study Lance Armstrong. He's retired and probably not doing anything right now. Apparently his body is an anomaly and doesn't product lactic acid and that's how he kept winning the Tour with a VO2/max of 82 without using EPO. I've had "The Science of Lance Armstrong" on hold on my Netflix cue for a decade. I'm sure it will come out soon.


Have you checked out the news lately? Apparently Lance was the king of the dopers. Google that shit. You don't have to believe all the lies he fed everyone for all these years.


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By Devin Krevetski
From West Woodstock, VT
Oct 21, 2012


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By Aerili
From Salt Lake City, UT
Oct 21, 2012
Get down from there! <br /> <br />May 2013 <br />Photo by Duc

Will Anglin wrote:
It isn't so much the "lactic acid" it is the H ions (that are left after the LA breaks down into Lactate and a H ion) that create an acidic environment and prevent the myosin heads from detaching from the actin. You will notice that when you are pumped the muscle feels hard, this is because your myosin heads cannot release to ready themselves for another contraction. When you are pumped, it is not so much that you can't grip and flex your forearm, it is that you can't 'ungrip'.

New research has shown that H+ ions don't seem to interfere with contractile properties at true body temperatures, so this theory is quite questionable these days.

And your "ungripping" statement was just....weird. I have no idea where you came up with that. It was believed that acidosis prevented myosin and actin from binding and pulling "in", not the other way around.


Hey OP: muscle pump is due to occluded blood volume in the muscle due to exercise. Exercising muscles trap the blood from being returned back to the heart by occluding the veins. Look that up.

I still fail to see how this relates to microbiology at all. This is an exercise physiology topic. Maybe you should review what your class is actually about.


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By Howrad McGreehan
Oct 22, 2012

Aerili wrote:
New research has shown that H+ ions don't seem to interfere with contractile properties at true body temperatures, so this theory is quite questionable these days. And your "ungripping" statement was just....weird. I have no idea where you came up with that. It was believed that acidosis prevented myosin and actin from binding and pulling "in", not the other way around. Hey OP: muscle pump is due to occluded blood volume in the muscle due to exercise. Exercising muscles trap the blood from being returned back to the heart by occluding the veins. Look that up. I still fail to see how this relates to microbiology at all. This is an exercise physiology topic. Maybe you should review what your class is actually about.


Aerili, you seem to know a lot about a lot of science-y, climb-y things. But you're very mean. Maybe you could be a bit more constructive with your comments? I like reading your posts, but they always seem so pretentious.


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By Colonel Mustard
From Reno, NV
Oct 22, 2012
Colonel Mustard

True, but good luck on that!


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By steve edwards
From SLC, UT
Oct 22, 2012

Lance Armstrong doped!?!? I'm shocked! Shocked, I say! Round up the usual suspects.


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