Login with Facebook
 ADVANCED
Scarpa Phantom Guides and Toe Bail tweaks?!?!?
View Latest Posts in This Forum or All Forums
   Page 1 of 2.  1  2   Next>   Last>>
Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
 
 
By Chris Graham
From Bartlett, NH
Sep 12, 2012
portrait <br />
I don't know if anyone else out there is experiencing the same problem I have with the narrow toe welt on the Scarpa Phantoms, but my crampons move around on me quite a bit and I have tried three different pairs (Grivel, BD and Petzl) to no avail. So far the Petzl's have worked the best and I have been using the Lynx in the mono configuration, but may have to go back to the dual due to the front toe bail sliding off and to the inside of both my big toes...

I hesitate to hammer on the bails for fear of compromising their integrity, but it really started to drive me nuts at the end of last year. I did crank them to rediculousness and that seemed to work but I don't want to trash the boots and crush them.

Anyone find any systems that work best for them? Suggestions?

Love the boots so selling isn't an option at this point

peace

FLAG
By Keenan Waeschle
From Bozeman, MT
Sep 12, 2012
on top of the RNWF <br />June 2012
message mr. burns over at coldthistle, he'll have an answer for you.

FLAG
By Ryan N
From Palo Alto
Sep 12, 2012
RJN
Yea BD makes a narrow toe bail which I believe is from the previous generation cyborgs. I had the same problem with my guides and it fixed it real good. I also got asymmetrical center bars to compensate for the curve in the sole. Now they fit perfect.

FLAG
By Chris Graham
From Bartlett, NH
Sep 12, 2012
portrait <br />
Thanks so much guys. Would the bails be somewhat interchangeable from BD to the Petzl Lynx?

FLAG
By Chris Graham
From Bartlett, NH
Sep 12, 2012
portrait <br />
Best fit thus far with the lynx Doug , but I was leading a narrow pillar near the end of last season and the monos moved so much to the inside that I had to kick the points in sideways like a soccer kick...scared the hell out of me but the purchase was good...just didn't need to be worrying about that 60' up. ;)

FLAG
By Chris Graham
From Bartlett, NH
Sep 12, 2012
portrait <br />
45's. They are a perfect fit. Love the Baturas but the left one dug into my ankle where the boot flexed. I tried three sizes...no luck, thus the move to the Phantoms.

FLAG
By Dane
Sep 12, 2012
Cham '11
Chris, thanks for the email. Hope this helps.

I've used the new BD bail and it is better than the old one. Pretty good by comparison for the new boots. But the Petzl bail seems to be the best to date. And yes you can add the Petzl bail to any of the BD crampons easy enough.

Petzl wire is stainless and known to work harden over time so you need to watch/replace them on occasion if you climb a lot.

The Batura is an easy fit, the Phantom Guide a little tougher and the Phantom Ultra, what I use as a single generally (45), harder yet because of the sole thickness gets thinner on every boot mentioned, in that order.

I really like the new Lynx but it does not fit my Ultras very well. Lynx fits the Phantom Guide better but fits neither well enough that I really like that particular combo. So I am using the Dartwin on my Ultras and am fairly happy with the fit compared to the Lynx.

Rawhide mallet, bench vise, some elbow grease and a little gentle converstaion will make any of them (brand or bail) fit better on the newest low profile boots.

But I like a "out of the box fit", knowing stainless wire work hardens and bending or pounding on them is NOT a good thing. I use a standard Petzl front bail but also use a BD heel piece to get a better fit over all on the Dartwin (and my Lynx as well). Sounds weird but it does make a difference on the Scarpa fit and how tight the crampon is on the boot with the slightly different leverage the BD lever applies.

broken bail
broken bail


Best fit I was getting on Scarpas (Ultra/Guide/6000) before giving up on the crampon style was a Petzl bail on a BD Sabertooth and the asym connecting bars.

cramps on a new 6000
cramps on a new 6000


asym bar on a 6000
asym bar on a 6000



I've decided my own priority is the best boot fit for my own feet and then what ever crampon fits that boot the best. Petzl bails no matter what crampon (Grivel/BD/Petzl) seem to be a common part of that equation.

FLAG
By cms829
Sep 12, 2012
high e
I agree with Dane. I climb with the phantom guides and petzl darts. Also have used BD's and found the Darts to basically fit like they were made for each other. I also did some testing in Ouray last season during the fest with the Scarpa rep and we also found the petzl dart, dartwin, and vasak's to be the best choices for the phantom guides. I crank on my front points climbing mixed, torquing them into fissures, and never had one pop.

My BD cyborgs fit well enough for glacier use though. as long as theyre tight enough theyre not going anywhere

FLAG
 
By Chris Graham
From Bartlett, NH
Sep 12, 2012
portrait <br />
Shit...sold my darts a few months back so I could get the Lynx! BAck to the darts I go...and I was totally satisfied with the darts..just liked the ability to go from mono to dual with a spin of the allen wrench.

FLAG
By cms829
Sep 13, 2012
high e
No no no....I didnt mean the Vasak's....I meant the Lynx!!! The new lynx fits it extremely well! it is basically the same toe bail.

FLAG
By Chris Graham
From Bartlett, NH
Sep 13, 2012
portrait <br />
Gotcha cms29.....thanks
I think I will put the lynx bails in the vice and see what I can come up with. I don't think it needs much tweaking, but I do need to pinch the bails slightly at the toe to conform to the thin profile of the phantoms.

FLAG
By Dane
Sep 13, 2012
Cham '11
Finally some one gets (again) how it is suppose to be.  No tricks just a perfect friction fit. <br />Petzl Lynx on a Scarpa Phantom Ultra and no back binding. <br />
Finally some one gets (again) how it is suppose to be. No tricks just a perfect friction fit.
Petzl Lynx on a Scarpa Phantom Ultra and no back binding.



The front bail is the same on all the Petzl crampons. From what I can tell the difference in fit is the placement of the holes on the front and how the bail then fits the toe of the boot. I found the Dart series seems to fit the thinner boots slightly better. But the Lynx does OK on the Ultra with a few tweaks.

FLAG
By divnamite
From New York, NY
Sep 13, 2012
A little off topic but last year, there were reports of front point breaking off on the Petzl Lynx. Any news from that?

FLAG
By Chris Graham
From Bartlett, NH
Sep 13, 2012
portrait <br />
Thanks Dane, Doug, and everyone else who pitched in on the conversation. I appreciate it greatly. Snow is on the way here in the northeast and I want to get stuff together before it comes.

FLAG
By Chris Graham
From Bartlett, NH
Sep 14, 2012
portrait <br />
Worked on the bails a little bit last night..seems to be a slight improvement, a bit more narrow at the toe. We will see.

FLAG
By cms829
Sep 14, 2012
high e
nice...lemme know when you wanna do some climbing in the whites!!

FLAG
 
By Chris Graham
From Bartlett, NH
Sep 14, 2012
portrait <br />
cms829 wrote:
nice...lemme know when you wanna do some climbing in the whites!!

Yah man! Ice season is busy with guiding but I am usually around. Give me a buzz or drop me a PM when you think you might be up in the area.

Chris

FLAG
By coop
From Glenwood Springs, CO
Nov 13, 2012
Indian Creek Climbing
what online retailer(s) would you recommend to purchase the scarpa phantom ultras since they are not available in the US

FLAG
By Ray Pinpillage
From West Egg
Nov 13, 2012
Middle
Check out ukclimbing.com

This is one of the sponsors: ultimateoutdoors.co.uk/item/Br...


FLAG
By Kevin Craig
Nov 20, 2012
KC on Fields (medium).  Photo (c) Doug Shepherd
Chris Graham wrote:
I don't know if anyone else out there is experiencing the same problem I have with the narrow toe welt on the Scarpa Phantoms, but my crampons move around on me quite a bit and I have tried three different pairs (Grivel, BD and Petzl) to no avail. So far the Petzl's have worked the best and I have been using the Lynx in the mono configuration, but may have to go back to the dual due to the front toe bail sliding off and to the inside of both my big toes... I hesitate to hammer on the bails for fear of compromising their integrity, but it really started to drive me nuts at the end of last year. I did crank them to rediculousness and that seemed to work but I don't want to trash the boots and crush them. Anyone find any systems that work best for them? Suggestions? Love the boots so selling isn't an option at this point peace


Chris, sorry for the late-ish response. I've used a vice to make toe bails narrower on a number of occasions in the past. Takes a bit of patience as most toe bails are spring steel. You have to compress beyond where you want to go, release, test, compress again etc. I've never had a toe bail fail from doing this. What I've been doing for the last couple of years with my Rambo 4s on Phantom Guides is off-setting the toe bail, one side in the front hole, the other side in the back hole. Again, not to spec', but I've worn out several pair and haven't had a bail break or other issues. YMMV

FLAG
By Chris Graham
From Bartlett, NH
Nov 20, 2012
portrait <br />
Kevin Craig wrote:
Chris, sorry for the late-ish response. I've used a vice to make toe bails narrower on a number of occasions in the past. Takes a bit of patience as most toe bails are spring steel. You have to compress beyond where you want to go, release, test, compress again etc. I've never had a toe bail fail from doing this. What I've been doing for the last couple of years with my Rambo 4s on Phantom Guides is off-setting the toe bail, one side in the front hole, the other side in the back hole. Again, not to spec', but I've worn out several pair and haven't had a bail break or other issues. YMMV


Thanks my man. I did end up tweaking them in a vice (PITA), and also offset the bails on the front of the crampon during that first season. They seem to fit much better and I have yet to get them out on the ice this season, but am already feeling better about the set up. Still think the geometry is a bit weird on the Lynx as the front points seem to angle in towards the instep...strange?!?!? Anyway. I will give them another season and see how they perform. Thanks for the info!

Chris

FLAG
By Ray Pinpillage
From West Egg
Nov 20, 2012
Middle
Dartwins fit perfect on my Phantoms. I switched to the front half so that left is on the right and right is on the left. No movement what so ever and the points are straight instead of tipped in. I would bet that the Lynx fit nearly the same.

FLAG
By Chris Graham
From Bartlett, NH
Nov 20, 2012
portrait <br />
Ray Pinpillage wrote:
Dartwins fit perfect on my Phantoms. I switched to the front half so that left is on the right and right is on the left. No movement what so ever and the points are straight instead of tipped in. I would bet that the Lynx fit nearly the same.


I might try that Ray, great suggestion. you would think that this stuff would or could have been worked out with the manufacturing. I think the fault lies with Scarpa on this one...why such a narrow profile on the toe? Never had issues with my Las Sportivas or Kaylands. Strange...seems like a lot of tweaking...

FLAG
By Ray Pinpillage
From West Egg
Nov 20, 2012
Middle
I think the crampon fit with the Phantoms is better than Nepal Evos.

FLAG
 
By Auto-X Fil
From NEPA and Upper Jay, NY
Nov 20, 2012
My two cents - the fit of Grivel G20s on my size 42 Phantom Guides was complete rubbish. I swapped to Petzl bails and they are perfect. It took some serious gorilla-ing to cram the Petzl bails in to the smaller holes of the G20s, but it happened.

Thanks to the folks at the Mountaineer in Keene Valley for stocking every known bail. It only took 5 minutes in there to find the perfect fit.

FLAG
By Chris Graham
From Bartlett, NH
Nov 21, 2012
portrait <br />
Auto-X Fil wrote:
My two cents - the fit of Grivel G20s on my size 42 Phantom Guides was complete rubbish. I swapped to Petzl bails and they are perfect. It took some serious gorilla-ing to cram the Petzl bails in to the smaller holes of the G20s, but it happened. Thanks to the folks at the Mountaineer in Keene Valley for stocking every known bail. It only took 5 minutes in there to find the perfect fit.

Funny you mentioned the G20's. I sold mine for exactly that same reason. Never thought to mix and match bails. Good on you! I really did like the geometry and they way the G20's climbed.

FLAG


Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
Page 1 of 2.  1  2   Next>   Last>>