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By giants98954
Apr 7, 2012
This past fall in NY a early twenties man died after slipping off the top of this scramble, taking "only" a ~25' fall. Others have decked from the high double digits (maybe 100'-150' range as well, I don't remember) and made it out in varying states of "OK." 40 feet is definitely in the potential death zone, especially if the landing isn't friendly. Of course some people routinely ropelessly navigate way more exposure on a daily basis, it's all in your risk tolerance and abilities to control your fears.

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By Dirty Gri Gri, or is it GiGi?
From Vegas
Apr 7, 2012
Growing a winter coat in Red Rock Canyon- December...
Here's some helpful TIPS from a stuntman; and parachutists/sky-divers on surviving potentially fatal falls.

And if you're drunk, your chances of survival in a fall/accident will probably be somewhat better from what I've heard.

WIKIHOW-SURVIVE A LONG FALL




Edit to add:

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By wankel7
From Indiana
Apr 7, 2012
I think the next time you solo you will analyze the risk much closer and answer your own questions.

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By Old and Busted
From Centennial, CO
Apr 7, 2012
Stabby
Isn't there a specific amount of feet it takes to reach terminal velocity? I know I could probably google it, but we know how much the scientists around here like to expound on physics

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By NickinCO
From colorado
Apr 7, 2012
after the hard stuff, into cruiser hands.
Lisa Mercurio wrote:
However, my guy friends "sprayed" their own ego by telling me any good rock climber can solo 30 feet.


Sounds like you need new climbing friends.

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By Dirty Gri Gri, or is it GiGi?
From Vegas
Apr 7, 2012
Growing a winter coat in Red Rock Canyon- December...
Falls over ten feet can potentially be really bad news, depending on luck (as Phil mentioned) and other factors; such as the terrain below you, your age, body position, level of tense muscles when falling etc...

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By DexterRutecki
From Cincinnati, Ohio
Apr 7, 2012
Lisa Mercurio wrote:
It's not a stupid question when the research online says a 30 ft fall will only result in minor injuries


Where does it say that online? As you probably already know people can write whatever they want online and dont believe everything you read.

Common sense would tell you jumping off the roof of a two story house to rocks would hurt you...

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By DexterRutecki
From Cincinnati, Ohio
Apr 7, 2012
grk10vq wrote:
i believed you asked if falling 30 feet onto jagged rocks would result in injury? WTF do you think? i can't wait for the next question? dear internet: if i get in a head-on collision w/ a moving vehicle will without wearing a seatbelt, in reality, what injuries could i sustain? good luck lisa!


Guideline #1 doesnt apply to admins or what?? I have had posts deleted for less so lets have a little consistency.

But I do agree with ya. Sorry Lisa we are not trying to be jerks it just kinda seems like a common sense answer.... Even if I wasn't a climber I would think I would know falling that far onto rocks, dirt, or a bouldering pad would not be good.

And Lisa I am super curious as to what research you found online says falling 30 feet will only produce minor injuries... I think ya made that part up! I just googled "injuries from 30 foot fall" and almost every one listed head trauma and serious injuries... So I call BS.

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By Old and Busted
From Centennial, CO
Apr 7, 2012
Stabby
Lisa Mercurio wrote:
It's not a stupid question when the research online says a 30 ft fall will only result in minor injuries and the many local climbers I talked to said 30 ft was no big deal.

What the hell!?!
People die all the time from 30 foot falls in construction.

Here's a test:

X******************************************X

Now, if your husband/boyfriend has you convinced that the distance between the X's is 10 inches, then you have a serious scale problem.

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By M Sprague
Administrator
From New England
Apr 7, 2012
Lichen head. Me, with my usual weatherbeaten, lich...
One way you could look at it is "If I drop, say a 35 lb rock on my head from 30 feet, is it going to hurt? ..If I drop it on my spine? ...catch it in my belly?"

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By Crag Dweller
From New York, NY
Apr 7, 2012
My navigator keeps me from getting lost
Lisa Mercurio wrote:
...the research online says a 30 ft fall will only result in minor injuries and the many local climbers I talked to said 30 ft was no big deal...


those 'climbers' should be barred from ever giving climbing advice again. and, what research did you find online? i'd like to see a reputable source that says this.

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By JSH
Administrator
Apr 7, 2012
JSH @ home  photo courtesy of Gabe Ostriker
Here you go: injuryprevention.bmj.com/conte... -- note the publication date; n = 7.

A bit more detailed, with, say, modern imaging, on n = 12: sciencedirect.com/science/arti...

(repeat after me: the plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data')

sciencedirect.com/science/arti... is a review with meta-analysis of published literature and says you're at ~100% mortality at 6 stories.

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By DexterRutecki
From Cincinnati, Ohio
Apr 7, 2012
JSH wrote:
Here you go: injuryprevention.bmj.com/conte... -- note the publication date; n = 7.


"The objective in studying the physiologic results of rapid deceleration in the following instances of extraordinary survival"

Did you read that part of your study? I am not sure if you are putting this up in suppourt of Lisa or what but all those cases were the extreme outliers so not really pertinent to our conversation. Falling from 70 feet to concrete and walking away with only bruises does not happen often.

As we already said if you google "30 foot fall injuries" the majority of people have serious injuries.

So I am still not sure where Lisa "found" all this data suggesting you will receive only minor injuries from a 30 foot fall. BS.

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By AnthonyM
Apr 7, 2012
Maroon Bells-Bell Cord Couloir
Is this post real??? I thought it was a joke....

Lisa, if the "research" (mentioned above) is what you concluded/determined, I am worried for you. I watched a climber fall and break their back from half that height. I question your common sense as well as your decision to climb...

Someone ought to post a "what happens if I fall 29 feet?" forum!

If in fact this post is for real...
Please don't climb next to me.

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By Buff Johnson
Apr 7, 2012
smiley face
Mike Lane wrote:
Isn't there a specific amount of feet it takes to reach terminal velocity? I know I could probably google it, but we know how much the scientists around here like to expound on physics


Mike, ballpark it just over 15 seconds which would be a little more than 3,600'


To the OP, certainly you can end yourself with a fall like that. People have blown their cspine by pile-driving themselves from a standing position, diving into water, or riding a bike, as well as people that took 800 footers and walked out of the hospital a few days later with nary but a scratch or two, so there is something of a dependance on mechanism and some chance.

I agree with Nick, if your "friends" aren't taking your safety seriously, then find new ones. If it's just a matter of learning about risk acceptance, yes, there are risks in climbing; sometimes falling isn't an option.

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By JSH
Administrator
Apr 7, 2012
JSH @ home  photo courtesy of Gabe Ostriker
Dexter, I'm only posting what's available by google. You, I, Lisa, everyone draws their own conclusions from the available data. Someone could indeed (somehow) decide from reading that first link, anyway, that because a few people did survive bigger falls, 30' is okay ...

It should, however, be obvious from my previous post that I do not personally agree with that conclusion. Buff has it right -- if that's what your friends are telling you, you need new friends.

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By DexterRutecki
From Cincinnati, Ohio
Apr 7, 2012
JSH wrote:
Dexter, I'm only posting what's available by google. You, I, Lisa, everyone draws their own conclusions from the available data. Someone could indeed (somehow) decide from reading that first link, anyway, that because a few people did survive bigger falls, 30' is okay ...


Ehhh not really... the article clearly states that those were extreme "extraordinary cases of survival."

I guess if someone didn't read the article they could somehow reason that 30 foot falls are fine but then again they could deduce a lot of things from not reading the article. So you don't really have a point...

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By Crag Dweller
From New York, NY
Apr 7, 2012
My navigator keeps me from getting lost
JSH wrote:
Here you go: injuryprevention.bmj.com/conte... -- note the publication date; n = 7. A bit more detailed, with, say, modern imaging, on n = 12: sciencedirect.com/science/arti... (repeat after me: the plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data') sciencedirect.com/science/arti... is a review with meta-analysis of published literature and says you're at ~100% mortality at 6 stories.


So, they did a study of people who fell but didn't get hurt and used that as their universe from which to derive results? That's interesting science.

I'm no scientist but I think the results and conclusions may be more valid if they factored in the thousands of people (probably far more) who've fallen lesser distances and experienced serious injury or died.

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By Jim Gloeckler
From Denver, Colo.
Apr 7, 2012
I fell from about 26 feet or so........pulled out a cam that was placed behind a large block (which was loose) and grounded on a pretty flat surface. 10% compression fracture of the 4th lumbar vertebra.....which took about 6 weeks to walk around normally and about 4 months to get back to climbing. when I hit the ground the dirt blew up into the air about a foot and came back down around me in very slow motion and it felt like I had been hit by Mike Tyson. All in all the Dr's told me that I was lucky to not have been hurt worse. 2 basic mistakes.....not saving enough energy to get back to a rest...........and stupidly placing that cam behind that block thinking it was good.

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By SendaGorilla
From Boulder
Apr 7, 2012
WOW!!---Chill out a little people. It's annoying how much this place is beginning to stink like the crusty crotch of a wasted frat boy!
The EGO in here is taking up Waaaaaaaaay to much bandwidth.

Ya'll gotta stop sprayin' about science, and "facts", and Google, and fall factors, and "this height", and "that height", it's ALL BS!
It's all reletive...too many variables for "this way right, that way wrong", crap.

I fell from the top of a 45 foot sport route on the island of Kauai last winter, ripped ALL rusty bolts and decked.
I layed there stunned...expecting to start screaming in agony...NOTHING...not even a scratch.
Turns out someone had been doing a little crag clean up and had piled up a stack of palm fronds under my climb...THANKS mystery person!

Then, not to long ago i saw my friend fall6-8ft from a boulder, ONTO A CRASH PAD, and snap her ankle in half......a little time after that someone showed me a video of a guy who's parachute didn't open, hit the ground from a10,000+ fall, BOUNCED, and limped away with only a few minor bones broken......explain that!~!

The point is....YOU CAN"T. ANYthing that CAN happen..usually DOES eventually.

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By DexterRutecki
From Cincinnati, Ohio
Apr 7, 2012
SendaGorilla wrote:
WOW!!---Chill out a little people. It's annoying how much this place is beginning to stink like the crusty crotch of a wasted frat boy! The EGO in here is taking up Waaaaaaaaay to much bandwidth. Ya'll gotta stop sprayin' about science, and "facts", and Google, and fall factors, and "this height", and "that height", it's ALL BS! It's all reletive...too many variables for "this way right, that way wrong", crap. I fell from the top of a 45 foot sport route on the island of Kauai last winter, ripped ALL rusty bolts and decked. I layed there stunned...expecting to start screaming in agony...NOTHING...not even a scratch. Turns out someone had been doing a little crag clean up and had piled up a stack of palm fronds under my climb...THANKS mystery person! Then, not to long ago i saw my friend fall6-8ft from a boulder, ONTO A CRASH PAD, and snap her ankle in half......a little time after that someone showed me a video of a guy who's parachute didn't open, hit the ground from a10,000+ fall, BOUNCED, and limped away with only a few minor bones broken......explain that!~! The point is....YOU CAN"T. ANYthing that CAN happen..usually DOES eventually.


Cool story hansel!!

I think thats the point most people have been trying to make. You could fall 40 feet and get lucky and walk away with a bruised ego or you could die. I think most people with common sense already know this.

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By J mac
Apr 7, 2012
Zermatt
Mike Lane wrote:
What the hell!?! People die all the time from 30 foot falls in construction. Here's a test: X******************************************X Now, if your husband/boyfriend has you convinced that the distance between the X's is 10 inches, then you have a serious scale problem.


Unless they have a really really big monitor.

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By Buff Johnson
Apr 9, 2012
smiley face
It's like heading to a Turkish bath house.

When you do, you meet Charlie Sheen. When you meet Charlie Sheen, you reenact scenes from Platoon with Charlie Sheen.

Don't reenact scenes from Platoon with Charlie Sheen.

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