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running a 24 volt drill on a car battery?????
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By Brejcha
Sep 26, 2006
Dry Wall, Echo

I am real sick of using my hand drill to set bolts! I've had a 24v cordless drill for a while but my friend lost the charger and it could only get about 2 or 3 holes in sandstone before running out of juice.

Anybody know how to make my drill run off a car or motorcyle batterty? I've got an idea of how to do it, but i'd rather have someone else's imput before I try. I don't wanna fry my drill or my self!


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By Avery N
From Boulder, CO
Sep 26, 2006
Canadian Rockies Ice 2008.

sad, indeed


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By Lee Smith
Sep 26, 2006
You can love your rope but you can't "LOVE" your rope! <br />(Back by Popular Demand.  There you are Mom) <br /> <br />

Dude,

Car and most motorcycle batteries are 12 volt, not 24. It won't work.

I have a great idea! Leave the bolt kit at home and try climbing without it.

It beats lugging a 60 pound car battery to the crags, only to find out it is a moronic idea.

I agree Avery, this is sad.


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By logan johnson
From West Copper, Co
Sep 27, 2006
Flakey Pull Roof v5

Use a hand-drill, If a 24V hardware store drill works in the rock you are drilling then a hand-drill will work almost just as well. Plus hand drilled routes (esp. in granite) are never overbolted.


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By Junior
From Morrison, Co
Sep 30, 2006

It is possible...

As someone said... car & MC batteries are 12 V. So what you would need to do is run two batteries in series. This means connect the + terminal of one battery to the - terminal of the second. Then connect the two remaining terminals to the drill... This would now require a 24 volt charger to charge these batteries (unless you disonnect them and charged seperately)...

Your next obstacle would be creating some sort of connector to actually connect the batteries to the drill...

While it could be done, I'm not sure it would be worth the trouble... If anything, investing in another battery charger would be easiest...

Hope that helped answer your question.

Good luck out there

Junior


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By Perin Blanchard
Administrator
From Orem, UT
Sep 30, 2006
Racking too much gear, as usual.

www.fishproducts.com/tech/drill.html


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By Brejcha
Oct 4, 2006
Dry Wall, Echo

Thanks for the input Junior, and thanks for the link Perin. That's pretty much what I wanted to hear.

Avery and Lee, SEE GUIDELINE #1. If you don't like talking about bolting,then stay out of SPORT forum.


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By Lee Smith
Oct 4, 2006
You can love your rope but you can't "LOVE" your rope! <br />(Back by Popular Demand.  There you are Mom) <br /> <br />

Hey Avery, I think this guy is calling us jerks....


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By Chris Sheridan
From Boulder, CO
Oct 4, 2006
Chris setting up the rappel in the Southeast Gully of Arrowhead.  If anyone cleans that stopper and pin, I'd be glad to have it back.

I looked over that fish article would add two bits of advice. Never solder directly to batteries. You run a very high risk of damaging the battery and maybe yourself. Secondly, if buying lead acid batteries, be sure to buy deep cycle batteries. Normal Car (Starter) batteries are not meant to be discharged all the way. Doing so will cause permanent damage to the battery.

As for Juniors charging advice, charging the batteries individual with a 12 volt charger will help to extend the life of the battery pack. Charging batteries in series usualy results in a voltage imbalance and premature capacity loss.


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By Tom Hanson
Oct 6, 2006
Climber Drawing

Contact Tod Anderson (listed in people section of this site)
Tod knows how to hook up a "gel-cell" that gives you about 20-30 holes per charge. Much cheaper and better than getting a new battery and charger for the Bosch


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By Jeff Barnow
From Boulder Co
Oct 6, 2006
What goes up must come down

Another idea is that most aircraft run off of 24v batteries and they very in size quite a bit. By using one of these batteries you alleviate the need of connecting two batteries together. The one bad thing about this is that anything that has to do with aviation generally cost 4-10 times as much. I think you can get one for around 150-200 bucks but you have to shop a bit. I might have a few laying around I could part with but preferably not.

Another piece of advice is beware that everyone on this website is extremely sensi and will jump on you at any opportunity. Rebuteling anything just sets you up for more scrutiny and abuse from the peanut gallery.


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By Avery N
From Boulder, CO
Oct 6, 2006
Canadian Rockies Ice 2008.

mbrejcha wrote:
Avery and Lee, SEE GUIDELINE #1. If you don't like talking about bolting,then stay out of SPORT forum.


mbrejcha:

I've thought about your comment towards me.

It's worthy to recognize that the topic you raised (power bolting, and likely on rappel) is a debated/political topic. It's that way for a very good reason. You may not agree with it, but, in fact, it is a debated issue within the climbing community.

The question you asked ties directly to that debate. So, it follows that you may get some feedback that isn't in support.

Let me leverage a similar situation. If you had posted "I'm really bummed that my cam hooks aren't holding me up because the soft desert sandstone crumbles when I use them. How can I make them hold better when the sandstone crumbles?" You'd probably expect to receive some heat about this. So, maybe (and hopefully) that example is a little clearer as to why when you bring up a debated topic, people will present their opinions.

I won't go into the details of why I personally think more thought and planning should be put into what is be bolted, and that power bolting leads to overall less-thought in the bolting process. But, it is an issue that does and will affect all types of climbers in a permanent sense, regardless of in which forum it's posted.

In the end, being able to differentiate between some friendly political sarcasm and a personal attack is pretty important. Nothing personal was implied in my posting, so please don't read it that way.

Cheers. Go out and climb something fun.

Avery


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By Old and Busted
From Centennial, CO
Oct 6, 2006
Stabby

I've got a couple of takes here. One, it sounds like you are using a cordless drill as opposed to a rotary hammer. I make a living with these things. I have a 24v FireStorm cordless hammerdrill, which will get me only about 6 - 1/4" holes in concrete, which is far easier to drill than any rock that's worth climbing. I also have a 24v Bosch, that would drill 1/4" holes all day if I brought it to work. The cordless hammerdrill is simply not the right tool for route installations. If you try to rig one with the gel pack, you'll probably burn it and your rope up.

But I've also got to address what I think is being implied by others about how you bolt a route; namely it's better to haul up a hand-drill and bolt on the lead. Didn't this argument start like around, 1985? If you have happened to have stumbled upon a potential sport crag, surely we can all agree by now that it has to have been ignored by 50 years of tradders due to protection issues. I still remember the idiotic rantings when Shelf Road got started... "you could set tri-cams in the pockets, waaa". A potential sport crag has a lot of qualifiers to clear; like its climbing and cultural history, legal access, safety, rock quality, habitats, etc.

If the spot passes muster, then you assume the responsibility of creating what will become a public amenity on what is all of our land. The bolts need to be installed well. They need to be placed with well thought-out spacing. Run outs at a sport crag are offensive. When you climb a Splatte slab with 30' spacings you accept it because that's how the guy first did it, he's tired, balancing on hooks and has to cut both hands loose to bang on that drill for 45 minutes.
But if someone hangs on a rappel and bangs in spinners every 15 feet, seemingly due to nothing other than ideology, then all he's done is screw up what might been for everyone else who follows. I'll never know the rock quality of the Red Slab because when I climbed there I was mostly focused on being pissed off that Alan spaced the bolts so far.

When a route is bolted, you do it for everyone that follows, and you really only have one chance. What a rant, I need to get out more.


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By Old and Busted
From Centennial, CO
Oct 7, 2006
Stabby

Dear Mr. Angry, allow me to better clarify my take. Sandstone, especially the desert, is typically the realm of either trad leads or ground-up bolted slabs. A power drill is, by my earlier take, not the correct application. At least here in the west. An exception would be Red Rock Canyon O.S. in the Springs. Some of those are ground-ups, but if they all were there would be about 50% fewer routes than now; but the nature of the routes would basically be the same. My bolting experience is mostly hard stone at areas that were always more or less ignored by our ancestors.

And whats up with the moniker? Don't sound too angry to me. I'm the curmudgeon who married a succubus and has to resort to sneaking away from chores to post things here on a day that is screaming "GO CLIMB".


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By elmo mecsko
From Lyle, Washington
Mar 22, 2007
My loyal climbing/mountain rescue dog, Cohosh.

I have been putting up routes for many years using a 24 volt Bosch Bulldog cordless Rotohammer that I have adapted to run on 2 12-volt motorcycle batteries. It sounds like you found some good info on the recommended website. It is quite easy to make this adjustment to your drill, and the results are great: I get about 30- 3/8" bolts placed in basalt, from a full charge; and the weight of the battery pack is in my backpack instead of on the drill.

Avery said: "Power bolting leads to overall less-thought in the bolting process"

Now let's think about this. When I rap bolt with my rotohammer I get an opportunity to figure out the best possible route that can be put up on a particular piece of rock. Hence, putting up a route that will most likely be enjoyed by many. Sport routes are supposed to be about the art of climbing rock. When a climber finishes one of my routes, I hope that the thoughts are ones of how enjoyable the movement was, not how sketchy the clips were.


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By Avery N
From Boulder, CO
Apr 4, 2007
Canadian Rockies Ice 2008.

elmo mecsko wrote:
Avery said: "Power bolting leads to overall less-thought in the bolting process"


Elmo, I think you neglected to include the earlier part of my sentence

"why I personally think"

and capitalized the 'P' in power -- so this isn't really a quote of what was said, nor in the correct context.

The key word I used is overall. I didn't say there weren't folks who setup well thought out routes. This is my *opinion*.


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By Abbey
From Bee Hive State!
Apr 5, 2007
I'm a Communist

Pussy.

Ever wonder why access is the issue we all face? It's the power drill. Hand drilling is a wonderful self limiting device. Makes you stronger and keeps the land mangers off our backs. Get balls, a good rubber handle, some hooks and go.


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By 426
Apr 6, 2007

Abbey wrote:
Pussy. Ever wonder why access is the issue we all face? It's the power drill. Hand drilling is a wonderful self limiting device. Makes you stronger and keeps the land mangers off our backs. Get balls, a good rubber handle, some hooks and go.

Chit, I know (actually learned how to climb from) trads who say hooks are cheating...call it what you want (cheating) just don't call it "trad" is what they say...

Actually, the problem is a group of climbers making a tempest out of a teapot over "how a hole was done"...even Bachar use a Bulldog, remember?

A hole is a hole is a hole, in the "land manager" perspective...think it out. "Fixed" anchor bans don't discriminate on how the hole was done...

Yall trads (cough, cough) are missing the "big hole" though...give me an hour or so with a d11 single shank and a full tank and I'll make a bigger hole than all the power drill sporto holes combined...as well as every single 'stance drilled' and hooked hole.



Let my people climb...


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By Tzilla Rapdrilla
Apr 6, 2007

12 volt - 7.0 amp hours lead acid gel cells wired in series work the best. Use removable wires so you can charge the batteries individually. Two batteries and charger can be had for about $70 at a battery supply store and will get you 30 - 3/8" x 3" holes in granite. The lower rated cells like the 5.0 amp hour versions save a little weight, but don't seem to last very long or drill nearly as many holes as expected. You will also have to rig your drill to plug into the batteries. The batteries weigh about 12 lbs. and are best carried in a back or fanny pack.


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By Josh Audrey
From LAS VEGAS
Apr 6, 2007
maneater

weak


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By C Miller
Administrator
Apr 6, 2007
High Desert Sunrise, Joshua Tree NP

Ethical differences aside, power drilling is the way to go (unless doing a small amount of bolts in anything but the softest of rock), and the best power is from, as Tzilla mentions, 12v lead-acid (or lead-calcium) batteries:



The 5.0 amp and 7.0 amp are both suitable, with the 7.0 amp providing even more firepower - up to 60+ holes in granite. There are many online suppliers with power-sonic.com and www.towerhobbies.com being two very reputable sources.

One thing to think about is that power drilling can make replacing old, dangerous bolts much easier than hand drilling, and enable one to replace large numbers of bolts in a day. Keep in mind the use of power drills is illegal in wilderness, but even in Joshua Tree National Park a special use permit is sometimes given to enable bolt replacement with a power drill (in non-wilderness areas of the Park).

Lastly, here are some links to battery recycling sites -

earth911.org

batterycouncil.org


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By Old and Busted
From Centennial, CO
Apr 6, 2007
Stabby

You know, the ideal sport crag would be one where you could hook up your drill to your car's battery while it's running.


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By Jay Knower
Administrator
From Campton, NH
Apr 6, 2007
Technosurfing, Rumney. Photo by Seth Hamel.

Mike Lane wrote:
You know, the ideal sport crag would be one where you could hook up your drill to your car's battery while it's running.


I think you're describing Rifle.


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By Ed Wright
Oct 14, 2007
Magic Ed

What you are asking about is entirely possible--I've been doing it for years using 12v shop batteries hooked up in series (and a solar charger for re-charging). Of course, you also have to modify your drill a bit so it runs with a cord--I use heavy duty speaker wire. Rock & Ice (or was it Climbing?) ran an article about this, by Jeff Jackson, a couple years ago.


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